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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 07-29-2011, 05:52 PM
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Default From the Office of the Attorney General

Dear Ms. XXXXXXXXX:

Thank you for your e-mail of July 17, 2011, regarding the family justice system. We are responding on behalf of the Ministry of the Attorney General.

We understand the frustration you and your partner are experiencing at this difficult time. We would like to assure you, however, that Ontario is committed to strengthening the family law process and improving access to justice by making the system easier to use, more focused and more affordable.

Improvements to the family justice system will:
· Provide more information to families up front about the steps they need to take and the impact on children when relationships break down;
· Enhance opportunities to identify issues, ensure early disclosure and provide referrals to community resources to better support families in reaching resolutions;
· Improve access to legal advice, as well as less adversarial means of resolving issues, such as mediation; and
· Streamline and simplify the steps involved for those cases that must go to court.

The Attorney General recently announced that by summer 2011, families across the province will have access to improved services through Ontario Courts, including:
· A Mandatory Information Program that provides information about the effects of separation on children and options for resolving disputes outside of the courtroom. This program is successfully being delivered in the Brampton, Milton, and the 17 Family court sites of the Superior Court of Justice. The program will be expanded to all family court sites by the summer of 2011.
· A Family Mediation Service that helps families identify challenges and reach solutions outside the courtroom.
· Information and Referral Coordinators who function as a point of contact for families as they enter the family justice system and help direct and connect potential litigants to services in the community that assist with family breakdown, including counselling and support services and alternatives to litigation.
These services will be available province wide by summer 2011.

As part of its commitment to improving the family justice system, the Ministry of the Attorney General has also developed an online tool to assist in the completion of the most commonly used family court forms, including the application, answer and parenting affidavit. The Ontario Court Forms Assistant asks users a series of plain language questions and uses their answers to populate a court form. The Forms Assistant also has a number of help features, including “more information” buttons that provide explanations about key legal concepts like custody and access, detailed instructions on where to take a completed form and a “Links and Resources” page. You can access the Forms Assistant from the Family Justice page of the Ministry’s website at Family Law - Ministry of the Attorney General.

Ontario's custody and access laws, as well as the legislation that governs child support, apply equally to men and women, and to all parents, whether or not they are married to each other. Ontario's Children's Law Reform Act provides that the father and the mother are equally entitled to custody of their child. When this presumed equal right to custody is changed by a court order for custody or access, the order must be made in accordance with the best interests of the child.

General legal information, including family law, is available at Justice Ontario, the Ministry’s legal information site. To access Justice Ontario, please visit our website at:

Justice Ontario - Ministry of the Attorney General

In addition, the Community Legal Education Ontario (CLEO) website has information guides on a number of family law topics which can be found at:

Community Legal Education Ontario (CLEO) - Publications by Subject - Family

The Law Society of Upper Canada operates a Lawyer Referral Service, through which your partner may obtain ½ hour of free legal consultation. The Law Society will provide the service at no charge at the following number: 416-947-3330 or 1-800-268-8326 (toll-free).

Thank you again for writing.


Social Justice Programs and Policy Division
Ministry of the Attorney General



While informative I would like to note they failed to address any of the very specific issues pertinent to my complaint. A little bit too much like a cut and paste job to satisfy me, but there you go.


As the pic says - write your letters people! Eventually they are going to get the message that the change that is happening is not nearly enough.

I'll be thinking up a lovely response latter.
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:17 PM
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They didn't even bother to even read what you had to say, they just sent you a nice form letter. Hope your get'em good on your reply.
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Old 08-10-2011, 03:29 PM
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Took awhile as I've been busy but here is my reply:



To The Desk of the Attorney General,

While, I thank you for the email reply and sound bite that is promoting the Social Justice Programs offered, I feel as though my concerns where neither acknowledged or addressed. Further, while I also appreciate the fact that changes are being made in policy and programs to Family Law, they are not nearly enough to address how deeply the disfunction and the breech of human rights that the current laws still support.

According to Part 1of the Constitution Act, of 1982 in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms 6. (b) one has the right to gaining of a livelihood in any province. Yet, through the policies of the Federal Guidelines you strip individuals of their very right to maintain that livelihood in which they gain. Awarding Child Support based on Grossed up amounts of income, adding additional section 7 awards, as well as tacking on in some circumstances further awards of spousal support can and often forces the payer (which in the majority of cases - the man) into not only a substandard of living but even poverty.

This further is a breech of point 7 of the same Charter, wherein it clearly states: Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice. The amounts and the policies clearly breech this right as they do in fact deprive individuals of the rights of not only liberty and security but in some extreme cases of life itself. I would think the statistics surrounding how many men have been so abused of their rights to the point that suicide becomes their only means of escaping this torture, should speak volumes. And what of those, that have had their liberty stolen and forced into debtors prison (which has long been an abolished practice)? To send a man to jail because the laws themselves have stripped from him the ability to financially be stable, is a shocking practice altogether. A practice that reflects a complete disregard to Human Rights.

Point 12. of the Charter states: Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any cruel and unusual treatment or punishment.

Is this not clear enough?

The very set up of the Family Law System is so adversarial that it can not be anything other than cruel and unusual treatment or punishment. Competition and status of who can afford the better Lawyer pits parents against each other like pit bulls in a fighting arena, with Judges and lawyers as the betting observers and the only winners. Families, as a whole are raped of their security and children are mere pawns in a disgusting game of money grabbing and power. Ignoring the actually costs of children and propping up some mythical pre-divorce standard of living is quite simply ludicrous.

We call ourselves an educated people. The Canadian attitude rife with egotism and superiority in the world as we are a "first world nation". Yet, here on our home soil we allow horrific practices in the name of "law" to continue on a daily basis. These "laws" not only allowing people to use false senses of entitlement and vindictiveness to be awarded, but create lasting damage on generations to come. Society, will continue to disintegrate while these practices remain.

Let me also mention point 15. (1) wherein every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability. It is clear by sheer numbers than men are not treated equally in the eyes of Family Law. The Notion that women simply because of their sex are the better parent to provide daily custodial care is biased beyond any reason. Birthing a child does not equate maternal care or instinct. Many fathers are not only equal in their ability to provide safe, loving homes in which to foster healthy children, often times are far superior in their abilities. The assumption, that children are better off with their mother some 86% (give or take a percentage point) is a terrible bias with long reaching consequences.


Where in fact all things are equal, a starting point of 50/50 custody would be immediately granted in all cases. Then from this vantage point, the best interest of the children could be determined on a case by case basis with no prejudice. To have fathers start from a place of visitor desperate to obtain 50/50 or the long arduous journey of proving he himself in a healthier position to be awarded primary residence or custody has the system skewed from the onset. An upward battle for a man, which is generally accepted to be the norm is not equal. Yet again point 28. states: Notwithstanding anything in this Charter, the rights and freedoms referred to in it are guaranteed equally to male and female persons.

Further, let me make mention of point 36. (1) :Without altering the legislative authority of Parliament or of the provincial legislatures, or the rights of any of them with respect to the exercise of their legislative authority, Parliament and the legislatures, together with the government of Canada and the provincial governments, are committed to
(a) promoting equal opportunities for the well-being of Canadians;
(b)furthering economic development to reduce disparity in opportunities;

Yet, the practice of the Federal Guidelines and the equalization practices of the Divorce Act do not promote either equal opportunities but in fact creates greater disparity of the well being and opportunities of the parents. A comprehensive inquiry into the results and standards of living into those that are payors vs those that are in receipt of such payments in addition to governmental supports and tax breaks is long over due. At one time, it is true that many a mother was left with little sustenance but the pendulum has swung far to far the opposite direction, leaving women able to financially rape their children's fathers in the name of "law". Children should never be profitable pawns. To ignore the economic disparity between parents at all levels of access percentages is negligent and irresponsible on the part of our government.

Clearly, the Charter of Rights is NOT being adhered to. Clearly, the Divorce Act Allows for cruel and unusual punishment of parents - particularly the parent under the 40% access marker and therefore the payor. The system is set up to CREATE deadbeats as it is based upon the notion that these parents never see their children or endure costs while the children are in their care. And what happens to these men should they fall behind on forced payments through FRO? Barely able to survive as is, what would happen if they got laid off? Couldn't afford legal help to change the existing orders? What if they were injured? The swift decline into bankruptcy, loss of license preventing them from getting to work, jail time also preventing them from either getting to work and giving them a record making it more difficult to find alternative work upon release, or even suicide. How is any of this economically protecting families and children?

These issues are not only very personal to me but are issues that effect families and society as a whole. Sadly, we are one of thousands. Thousands nation wide that suffer under unjust laws. So while, your amendments are long over due they don't even begin to scratch the surface of rectifying a gross system of legally approved torture on Canadian Citizens.


xxxxx xxxxxx
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:47 PM
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Default and the banter continues...

Dear Ms. XXXXXXXX:

Thank you for your e-mail of August 10, 2011, regarding the family justice system. We are responding on behalf of the Ministry of the Attorney General, further to our response on July 29, 2011.

We are very sorry to hear of the ongoing difficulties that you and your partner have experienced as a result of your partner’s divorce. The Ministry of the Attorney General is committed to a family justice system that operates in the best interests of children and treats all participants fairly. Family law is a complex area within which the needs of many different individuals must be balanced.

Your comments have been shared with those ministry officials who are responsible for family law policy and legislation. We assure you that the Ontario government assesses our laws and regulations to ensure that they are in compliance with the Canadian Constitution and Charter. Neither the Attorney General nor his officials, however, are permitted to intervene in a private legal matter or provide legal advice to members of the public.

Thank you again for writing to share your views and concerns.


Policy and Adjudicative Tribunals Division
Ministry of the Attorney General




Most of that could read "blah blah blah blah blah"

The only point of any interest is "Your comments have been shared with those ministry officials who are responsible for family law policy and legislation.". Let me make it abundantly clear that the only way legislation is going to change is if enough people make enough noise in the ears of those ministry officials who are responsible for family law policy and legislation.

GET MAKING NOISE!!!!!
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrobins View Post
They didn't even bother to even read what you had to say, they just sent you a nice form letter. Hope your get'em good on your reply.
Uh, I think he/she did!
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baldclub View Post
Uh, I think he/she did!

tee hee I've never been called a he/she before.

I'm all woman! With the spirit of a mama grizzly bear.
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:30 AM
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Haha, I looked everywhere in your profile to check, doh!

My apologies Mama Grizzly Bear!
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:41 PM
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No problemo. It is an easy mistake on here. Besides I guess to some I am kinda a traitor to my sex as I firmly stand as a Dad's Rights Activist!

Women have more power than they think they do and when the use their children as pawns and the law as a weapon it shows a horrific misuse of power.

They have the power to put their needs of the children first and raise consciously aware individuals that go off into society as productive compassionate human beings. When they fail in doing this because of a motivation of greed, vindictiveness, and revenge then not only do their children carry a lifetime of problems - society as a whole reaps the disaster of emotionally sick individuals - welcome the age of RESPONSIBILITY!

Occupy wall street - then occupy family court!
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:45 PM
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Then why aren't you a Childs-Rights Activist?

lol...Oh wait, nevermind, I know the answer to that.
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:58 PM
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It is a child's right to have a father.

By screwing over the father - you screw over the child. Therefore both actually go hand in hand as far as fighting for justice.

However, it is not the child that stands in family court.
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