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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2017, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Very smart. I took the high road also. In court I would say often "I will always respect and promote mom's role in D5's life".

When allegations were made I would simply ask if she had proof, and if not politely ask that we move to the next issue.

No VERBAL JIU JITSU! That's what OP wants...to get you defensive and arguing.

Your biggest problem is that I don't think you have documented proof saying "Hell No .. I'm an equal parent. You can't do this to our child. Allow me to be an equal parent or we go to court". I really wish you had that in writing.

But then again, during the moments we have no clue we're preparing for court. We don't know about family law and how we need exhibits and documents. The fact that you're in court should be good enough reason to show the judge you've never consented. (Use that in court \when she says you consented through acquiescence .. and she will say that).

Your ex has a problem. Know what it is? She unilaterally cut access on an allegation. BUT..didn't contact CAS or anyone else. If she was so concerned about the child's health under your care she should have called CAS instead of playing gatekeeper god. (Use that in court too ... minus the term gatekeeper god).

Bu yes...it would seem that your issue is it may appear as if you consented to all of this...and this is what she will say in court. You wont be able to prove her wrong without documentation.
any text message email asking for access and her saying NO ? of course she wouldn't just say NO. it would rather be a paragraph of vomit which essentially means NO.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2017, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Dad1985 View Post
and dont be afraid to ask for copies of all records including clinical notes.

I of course want to know about my daughters health....but should I also hold onto them to show I have been active with her health?
Retrieving 2 years of records doesn't show you are active with her health. It shows that you showed an interest after 2 years.

You need to show that you have asked for time with her and been denied. You need to show that you had much more time with her and it's been reduced.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2017, 10:25 AM
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Your biggest problem is that I don't think you have documented proof saying "Hell No .. I'm an equal parent. You can't do this to our child. Allow me to be an equal parent or we go to court". I really wish you had that in writing.

Agreed. It was not my intention to let this all happen. I did hire a lawyer and iniate the process shorty after and have correspondance from my previous lawyer requesting more access.

Your ex has a problem. Know what it is? She unilaterally cut access on an allegation. BUT..didn't contact CAS or anyone else. If she was so concerned about the child's health under your care she should have called CAS instead of playing gatekeeper god. (Use that in court too ... minus the term gatekeeper god).

She could never truly say im a bad father. Ive also had benefits for my daughter this whole time which i will have to print off and add to the file.

Bu yes...it would seem that your issue is it may appear as if you consented to all of this...and this is what she will say in court. You wont be able to prove her wrong without documentation.

We had a four way meeting as well with my previous lawyer which took our stance right away of potential shared and the fact i want to be in her life.
I had no experience in family law and didnt think things would be this way. now its been dragged out and a poor OCL report over nothing.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2017, 12:24 PM
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I did hire a lawyer and iniate the process shorty after and have correspondance from my previous lawyer requesting more access.
Yes .. bring evidence of all this. Your ex will say that you were okay with not seeing your kids. You'll say...No I wasn't...here's the court application and a PILE of access denials. She also made up false allegations of cigarette smoke to stop the very limited access she was already allowing. This is a true gatekeeper.

Quote:
She could never truly say im a bad father.
Yes she could ... and she will. She'll also say your parents are terrible (smoke, etc) .. get ready to have a heavy heart. Get your war paint on. You wont BELIEVE some of the crap you're about to hear.

Quote:
now its been dragged out and a poor OCL report over nothing.
OCL are a bunch of biased morons in my opinion. Refute refute refute. Mom = sole custody is the only template on their screen (majority anyway) ..... be more concerned about impressing the judges with a rock solid case.

Last edited by LovingFather32; 05-10-2017 at 12:27 PM.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2017, 01:06 PM
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I'm at work so I haven't read all the 5 pages of responses, but I can see a theme emerging. That is providing piece meal information.
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Originally Posted by Dad1985 View Post
Hello All

Ive been reading this forum for some time now and have followed threads under topics of OCL, Shared Custody, and Family law.
Well I'm not sure you have or haven't, the forum states you joined in May 2017.

Regardless you opening message is missing a lot of information such as age of the children, the situation that got you here, when did you breakup and the length of the current status quo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad1985 View Post
Recently, we had our OCL disclosure meeting held with the clinician and both parties involved. Unfortunantly, the recommendations did not go at all as i thought it would be. OCL recommended sole custody to the mother with 4 hours of unsupervised access on the weekend to continue for the next 6 months. The mother was asked to work with me going forward after that. It was suggest that I (the father) take parenting courses as well seek counsiling for this stressful situation.

The opposite parrty has continued to bring up past issues of mental health (Mild Anxiety) to use againt me. The issues have all been backed and cleared by medical professionals as dealt with and over.

My concerns are now, Is this something that can be disputed? Does this leave me in poor position? how much will the judge consider the OCL?

My overall goal is for shared parenting/access and have offered any means to do so (Change my work schedule, Moved close by, Paid full child support.
My Lawyer has suggested we first dispute OCL report once available. Secondly, that we put together a reasonable settlement offer that the Judge shouldnt find any reason to no endorse.

Please help as realistically i would like to avoid trial.

Thanks

DAD!
Ok now for the questions?
1. Why are you in supervised access? Was this ordered? or did you volenteer for it.
2. Are you the applicant (meaning your the moving party) or are you the respondent (didn't do anything about changing things until you were served)
3. What jurisdiction are in? Which court house?
4. Disputing the OCL? Absolutely you never take the first offer.
You need to silently wait for the OCL report, make no offers, have no discussions with the other side until you have the report in writing and can understand the thought process of the OCL.
You then need to request full and frank disclosure of the OCL assessor notes, as well as their CV / Resume documenting all the training and volenteer work they have performed.
5. Never ask for an interim order, they are hard to change, if you have to then it should incorporate a changing access schedule over time increasing to equal shared parenting which can be brought back if its not in the interest of the child. Supported by documented evidence.
6. Take parenting classes, they aren't necessary as the judge has indicated, but it strengthens your parenting skills over her's and strengthens your case. If they cost money, document the costs and when you win ask the judge to order those into your costs as it was your ex who suggested you weren't capable parent and as such parenting classes were a necessary step in the litigation.
7. Change your schedule now, not on the promise of change. Change you location now. Judges can only make decisions based on what is in front of them, not what one says they will do. Perhaps you need to find another career or job which allows day time, and or every other weekend off. Your's sounds like it's either week nights, or weekends. Neither situation is a good one. If you work week nights and are off on the weekends then you can get every weekend, but you'll be more like a Disney land parent and when your child is older in their teens they will want to spend their weekends with their friends. If you work every weekend and your off during the week then you are in a stronger position because you can argue they want to help with school work, home work, making lunches, educating them.

If you need to dispute the OCL, the only place to do that is at trial. It's the only place where evidence of the OCL report is tested. That is the be all and end all. Only at trial is evidence tested. Until then it is a recommendation.
If the other side tries to bring a motion seeking the recommendations be made into a intern order then look up Winn v. Winn 2008 Ont. S.C.J. about why custody and access arrangements shouldn't be made before trial.

Lastly before I head back to work. Become your own advocate, and learn law. Lawyers are expensive and they sometimes complicate things to cost you more money. Drive the matter forward towards your goals.

And understand what your goals are. Any order you agree to must take into account the future 20+ years. Because agreeing to an order or settlement means that it is very hard to change it in the future. Not the "oh we will wait 6 months and go back". that lawyers sometimes tell you, to get you to settle.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2017, 01:24 PM
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Thanks for your response involveddad75

Well I'm not sure you have or haven't, the forum states you joined in May 2017.

I would just look through the forum as a nonmember and decided to join to get some insight from people with experience.

1. Why are you in supervised access? Was this ordered? or did you volenteer for it.


My ex decided that was going to be the way it was. It was never ordered. My ex used previous issues of anxiety to say im not safe and cant be trusted. I have supporting documents from my family doctor and health clinician stating i am in good health. I did not volunteer for it, I have made my position that i want to be a parent in my daughters life and have held the stance of shared parenting.

2. Are you the applicant (meaning your the moving party) or are you the respondent (didn't do anything about changing things until you were served)


I am the Applicant.

3. What jurisdiction are in? Which court house?

KW. Kitchener court house.

4. Disputing the OCL?

Yes. My lawyer and i stepped out shortly after the OCL discloure meeting and i told her i will intend on disputing. She agreed that it was one sided. Also didnt agree that it will be left up to the parties after 6 months on what to do. My lawyer feels it will just bring us back to court.

6. Take parenting classes,

I have signed up to an online one (Impulse just to get started) as well as a 4 week certificate in person program also a parenting workshop. I intend on continuing to take the parenting workshops or anything else that can be offered through the service.

7. Change your schedule now, not on the promise of change


Ive spoken with a family memeber who has advised the same. My lawyer thinks that it may look like i have had the oppurtunity to spend more time with my daughter but chosen not to by having my schedule remain the same. Not the case since her mother has kept her from me. My lawyer suggested, which my employer has agreed to, is get a letter of endorsement stating i can change schedule when needed.

Lastly before I head back to work. Become your own advocate, and learn law. Lawyers are expensive and they sometimes complicate things to cost you more money. Drive the matter forward towards your goals.


Seems like the position that i am in now. Her lawyer has been doing well at knit picking every little detail. They continue to go about mental health and appear to try to get me to display signs, which never happens.




Until then Ill have to do everything i can and see what the OCL report says.
Speak to date is may 18.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2017, 01:57 PM
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If you need to dispute the OCL, the only place to do that is at trial. It's the only place where evidence of the OCL report is tested. That is the be all and end all. Only at trial is evidence tested. Until then it is a recommendation.
Not necessarily true. After my OCL disclosure meeting and I received the report I disputed the report with the appropriate documents within a month of receiving the report.

I did so just in time for a motion to get rid of supervised access and increase access. My motion judge dismissed all OCL crap right away....got rid of supervised and gave me my daughter back almost 50/50. (I should've entered the motion requesting 50/50). Boom ... OCL report gone. So you don't have to wait for trial.

I like pretty much everything else involveddad has said here though. I'm still a bit confused on some of your issues also so try to answer all of your q's.

Involved dad......I think the OP just kind of mistakenly allowed his ex to dictate what happened in the beginning, being unaware of his rights like many peeps do when this situation arises. She said supervised...he nodded and did it pissed off...that type of thing.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2017, 02:03 PM
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1. No abuse
2. No addictions
3. Ability to parent unaffected
4. Mom wanted to end relationship ..but oops...ended parent relationship too
5. False allegations to stop the tiny access he had
6. Dad's taking parenting course, first aid, etc
7. Dad has no criminal record
8. No CAS involvement or domestic stuff EVER
9. Dad hoped OCL would be the voice of the child but got screwed (normal)
10. Dad respects moms role in child's life .. favor not returned by mom
11. This is a false status quo created by a dirty gatekeeper. I hate it!!

Dad will go to a motion and ask for graduated 50/50 and nothing less. If mom disagrees dad will win at trial.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2017, 02:14 PM
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1. No abuse
2. No addictions
3. Ability to parent unaffected
4. Mom wanted to end relationship ..but oops...ended parent relationship too
5. False allegations to stop the tiny access he had
6. Dad's taking parenting course, first aid, etc
7. Dad has no criminal record
8. No CAS involvement or domestic stuff EVER
9. Dad hoped OCL would be the voice of the child but got screwed (normal)
10. Dad respects moms role in child's life .. favor not returned by mom
11. This is a false status quo created by a dirty gatekeeper. I hate it!!


All this is pretty bang on. Ive been asked at time what i did to derserve this...responded nothing...still with uttering of ahh well you must of done something.

They have held on to the mental health stuff since it started even after providing documents. "Well what if it happens again" Ive been to my family doctor and had a detailed note written up that he has seen no concerns in my health....regardless....still on the mental health thing.

Time was taken away from 12 hours of supervised to eventually 3. There were issues so petty they are laughable that caused the time to go down.
Hiring lawyers only fueled the situation. Small disagreements have been spinned into me having mental breakdowns.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2017, 09:22 AM
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Can I ask how much it would likely be going to trial with a lawyer?
Would anyone recommend me representing mysel?
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