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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2017, 12:10 PM
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I'm not certain exactly what you are asking. It is clear the Judge agreed with Mom that the child is still a child of the marriage, thus your CS was updated. I find it funny how you think she is a bitch for wanting to keep CS going (which you are legally obligated to pay) so what does that make you for trying to stop CS when it is still due? You failed at proving the child was not a child of the marriage, your ex was successful in proving he was a child of the marriage. You commented about Mom being on disability... who cares? Even if she made $100k a year, her income is irrelevant in what YOU pay for CS.

The saddest part about this is that your relationship with your son has got to the point it has and you haven't cared about it. You helped your new partner raise her children and provide for her children, but you forgot about your own. Since your focus seems to be money motivated in opinion is the following.

Don't bother with your next CC. You can't prove he is not a child of the marrage and thus cannot avoid CS. You will not get a firm end date of CS, because many factors will come into play. My husbands SA has 6 different clauses which could be reasons to end CS, but he doesn't have a firm end date. Even if he did, Mom could decide to go to court and seek additional CS for whatever reason. My opinion is wait out the next couple of years, don't waste your time in court or on a lawyer. When your child is 23-24 then seek the change, but be aware if the child is in college you may have a hard time as well. I suggest trying to rebuild a relationship with your son, regardless of what you think he might say or do.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2017, 01:04 PM
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How did the judge at a case conference make a binding interim order ? Did you consent and agree to it ? A case conference judge cannot make an order without your consent.

Sounds to me the judge persuaded you into an agreement. What I have learned is to never agree to something you don't agree with at a conference because the judge thinks they are right. If you don't agree with the conference judge, you have a right to go to trial to prove your case and further to an appeal if you don't agree with the decision reached at the end of the trial.

It is not uncommon of case conference judges to quickly secure a bias against a party and do whatever they can possibly think of in order to screw over the other side just because they don't like them and don't support their case. If you consented, please let us know why. If you didn't, I would like to know how this judge made that order.

If the judge did in fact make that order without your consent, you should bring a motion to set it aside. The case conference judge had no jurisdiction to make that order without your consent/agreement. It was improper of him to do so.

Ps. I really don't like some of our judges. They're real scumbags.

Last edited by trinton; 02-26-2017 at 01:12 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2017, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes View Post
If I knew my father thought my mother was a piece of crap, I probably wouldn't want much to do with my father either.

What if your mother thought your father was a piece of crap who you should have little or no contact with, and only use him for money ? What if your mother thought you shouldn't see your dad for more than every other weekend? Unless the other parent is proven to be unfit - and by unfit I mean drug addict, alcoholic, abuses kids, etc - not the usual "we don't get a long" non sense, any ex-parent who does not support an equal relationship with the child's other parent and is only out for the mighty buck is a bitch of an ex.

I agree that O/P's ex is a bitch of an ex. She probably disparages the father till this day - "your father doesn't even love you he doesn't want to pay any child support for you - he doesn't even support your education. Why would you even want to accept someone like that as your dad?"

Last edited by trinton; 02-26-2017 at 01:39 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2017, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
I'm not certain exactly what you are asking. It is clear the Judge agreed with Mom that the child is still a child of the marriage, thus your CS was updated. I find it funny how you think she is a bitch for wanting to keep CS going (which you are legally obligated to pay) so what does that make you for trying to stop CS when it is still due? You failed at proving the child was not a child of the marriage, your ex was successful in proving he was a child of the marriage. You commented about Mom being on disability... who cares? Even if she made $100k a year, her income is irrelevant in what YOU pay for CS.
You are missing my point entirely. My ex and I have never got along well throughout the course of our marriage, and I think she's a totally useless bitch is for numerous other reasons, other than what you state in the paragraph above. I have NEVER missed one CS payment from the time we parted ways or ever threatened to stop CS payments in any way, up to and including the present moment. The CC judge seemed to accept what the ex said to the judge verbally, without any kind of documentation proving as such. It's not that I have an issue with paying CS, as I have stated NUMEROUS times already in this thread. I have an issue with continuing to pay, when he's not legally entitled is what this is about. Please read post #14 of this thread for the entire details of what I'm attempting to clarify. As far as how her being on ODSP is concerned? The point being that she, being of very little means would be that much more resistant to stopping CS, than someone who is a $100K earner.

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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
The saddest part about this is that your relationship with your son has got to the point it has and you haven't cared about it. You helped your new partner raise her children and provide for her children, but you forgot about your own. Since your focus seems to be money motivated in opinion is the following.
I have never forgotten about my own. But as you can probably imagine, I am a very busy man. That "healthy" $81,924 income doesn't just fall into my hands from the sky. In hindsight, my reply to the judge should've went, "THANK YOU Your Honour. And to earn that healthy income, I am up at 6AM every morning making my journey into work on a 35 kilometer commute taking anywhere between an hour to an hour an a half depending on traffic, to earn. Others, would be well encouraged to do so as well if they desire the same".

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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
Don't bother with your next CC. You can't prove he is not a child of the marrage and thus cannot avoid CS. You will not get a firm end date of CS, because many factors will come into play. My husbands SA has 6 different clauses which could be reasons to end CS, but he doesn't have a firm end date. Even if he did, Mom could decide to go to court and seek additional CS for whatever reason. My opinion is wait out the next couple of years, don't waste your time in court or on a lawyer. When your child is 23-24 then seek the change, but be aware if the child is in college you may have a hard time as well. I suggest trying to rebuild a relationship with your son, regardless of what you think he might say or do.
And this, mainly is the purpose of commencing this whole process. Even the CC judge himself, commented that I am seeking a change to an "old" order as he put it. To me, that means an update or variation to it is definitely due. Whether or not that means CS termination or not? Well, I really don't know at this point. What I do know is, even if it doesn't terminate right now, there definitely needs to be terminating conditions/clauses/date(s) added to it. For me, it's more about my piece of mind, not having to ever have any dealings or contact with the ex again. As far as my son is concerned? My door has ALWAYS been open to him. My partner and I have always maintained that position. We have never moved. We still live at the same residence since 2009, which is easily accessible to my son, if he chooses to do so. He chose NOT to do so. What am I supposed to do? There is this thing called a telephone. I'm certain he's been old enough to know how to use one for years now.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2017, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinton View Post
How did the judge at a case conference make a binding interim order ? Did you consent and agree to it ? A case conference judge cannot make an order without your consent.
A temporary order was issued, with an updated CS amount, along with stipulation that my ex and I exchange financials every year. My ex also put me through FRO, which is fine. After my 1st interaction with my case worker, I'm wishing it had gone through FRO years earlier. I couldn't have had a more positive interaction with someone in the public service sector. I must've consented to it. And no, I wasn't aware the judge couldn't make the order without my consent. This is clearly an indication of my lack of familiarity with the whole process.

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Originally Posted by trinton View Post
Sounds to me the judge persuaded you into an agreement. What I have learned is to never agree to something you don't agree with at a conference because the judge thinks they are right. If you don't agree with the conference judge, you have a right to go to trial to prove your case and further to an appeal if you don't agree with the decision reached at the end of the trial.
Quite honestly, even if I have to "give a little" to come to a resolve of this matter, I'm more than willing to do so. I'm not trying to be difficult with anyone, as arabian, Stripes and Berner_faith seem to want to imply. If the outcome were to be determined that I have in fact, been overpaying on CS since he turned 18, I'm not even going to seek the return of the overpayment at this point. But I will definitely ask to have it on record as an overpayment to be credited toward any future obligation in the miraculous event my son does get accepted and enrolled into college.

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Originally Posted by trinton View Post
It is not uncommon of case conference judges to quickly secure a bias against a party and do whatever they can possibly think of in order to screw over the other side just because they don't like them and don't support their case. If you consented, please let us know why. If you didn't, I would like to know how this judge made that order.

If the judge did in fact make that order without your consent, you should bring a motion to set it aside. The case conference judge had no jurisdiction to make that order without your consent/agreement. It was improper of him to do so.

Ps. I really don't like some of our judges. They're real scumbags.
All very good food for thought. It was his honour A. W. J. Sullivan. I have searched up some of his cases on Canlii. He seems pretty hard assed.

To that point, will it be the same judge presiding at the next CC, and if so, can I request a different judge?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2017, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinton View Post
What if your mother thought your father was a piece of crap who you should have little or no contact with, and only use him for money ? What if your mother thought you shouldn't see your dad for more than every other weekend? Unless the other parent is proven to be unfit - and by unfit I mean drug addict, alcoholic, abuses kids, etc - not the usual "we don't get a long" non sense, any ex-parent who does not support an equal relationship with the child's other parent and is only out for the mighty buck is a bitch of an ex.

I agree that O/P's ex is a bitch of an ex. She probably disparages the father till this day - "your father doesn't even love you he doesn't want to pay any child support for you - he doesn't even support your education. Why would you even want to accept someone like that as your dad?"
THANK YOU!!! Finally, someone who seems to understand the picture to my situation. Sheesh. I feel like I've been preaching to the choir.

And to your point, in the 1st paragraph above, no I am most definitely not a drug user/addict, alcoholic or pedophile. Nor have I ever said anything negative about his mother in his presence, during the years when I was having him over EOW, like things should have been. When we first split, I'll never forget a fellow co-worker's words of wisdom, which was "if ever there are unpleasant words exchanged in the presence of your child, make sure they come only from her mouth". I think I have adhered to that rule quite well, thank you very much.

And the point you've expressed in your 2nd paragraph is exactly what prevents me from taking the initiative to try to call or contact my son in any way. What is the use, if he's more than likely heavily influenced by his mother, by now? I might as well be talking to a wall.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2017, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-chan68 View Post
A temporary order was issued, with an updated CS amount, along with stipulation that my ex and I exchange financials every year. My ex also put me through FRO, which is fine. After my 1st interaction with my case worker, I'm wishing it had gone through FRO years earlier. I couldn't have had a more positive interaction with someone in the public service sector. I must've consented to it. And no, I wasn't aware the judge couldn't make the order without my consent. This is clearly an indication of my lack of familiarity with the whole process.


Quite honestly, even if I have to "give a little" to come to a resolve of this matter, I'm more than willing to do so. I'm not trying to be difficult with anyone, as arabian, Stripes and Berner_faith seem to want to imply. If the outcome were to be determined that I have in fact, been overpaying on CS since he turned 18, I'm not even going to seek the return of the overpayment at this point. But I will definitely ask to have it on record as an overpayment to be credited toward any future obligation in the miraculous event my son does get accepted and enrolled into college.


All very good food for thought. It was his honour A. W. J. Sullivan. I have searched up some of his cases on Canlii. He seems pretty hard assed.

To that point, will it be the same judge presiding at the next CC, and if so, can I request a different judge?
scumbag judge. file motion to set aside the order. he will be the same scumbag sitting at the bench for all case conferences. he won't be your trial judge.

with that salary of yours, go get your self a lawyer. you may find having a lawyer would have been cheaper. you might find you need to appeal thr order of the scumbag judge.

regardless, he had no jurisdiction to make that order without your consent and that order will be given little weight to at trial.

it's always wise to have a lawyer in this Country. especially so if you have a scumbag judge residing the bench.

I would retain counsel if I were you. a lawyer who listens to you, understands , and is on your side. he must have experience and good reputation. then you won't be screwed over by scumbag judge.

Do be polite and respectful to the judge even if you don't like him. but don't be afraid to talk. the judge has an obligation to listen to you.

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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2017, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by m-chan68 View Post
THANK YOU!!! Finally, someone who seems to understand the picture to my situation. Sheesh. I feel like I've been preaching to the choir.

And to your point, in the 1st paragraph above, no I am most definitely not a drug user/addict, alcoholic or pedophile. Nor have I ever said anything negative about his mother in his presence, during the years when I was having him over EOW, like things should have been. When we first split, I'll never forget a fellow co-worker's words of wisdom, which was "if ever there are unpleasant words exchanged in the presence of your child, make sure they come only from her mouth". I think I have adhered to that rule quite well, thank you very much.

And the point you've expressed in your 2nd paragraph is exactly what prevents me from taking the initiative to try to call or contact my son in any way. What is the use, if he's more than likely heavily influenced by his mother, by now? I might as well be talking to a wall.
my pleasure pal. I'm sure you're an amazing father. your children will eventually reach that age of maturity to figure out for themselves.

couple weeks ago I met grown up girl (mid 20s) who was saying how close to her dad she is now and how much she hates all the crap her mom told her about her dad. she said she would have rather to not hear any of it even if they were true. she now loves her dad to death.

trust me pal. it's not rocket science to figure out what some parents are up to, or the things they tell your children about you. be smart, look for clues, put the pieces of the puzzle together, and trust your instincts, but never assume.

meet with a therapist. they will help you figure out whats going on and you might even find they will help you come up with an email or letter that may help you to regain a relationship with your children.

don't take crap from bitch ex. don't take crap from scumbag judge. get a lawyer.

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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2017, 03:22 PM
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There are a lot of factors that OP hadnt shared that explain a few of his statements. Is it wrong to call his ex that? Probably. Theres more to the story that relates to that and its really not fair to attack him for other factors that he hasnt shared.

Hes trying to get some advice on his situation which is that his son, who turns 20 in four months, is not a child of the marriage. His mother has encouraged him to register for three courses a year for the last three years and he barely finishes one. Why? Because she loses her monthly income if he does. Now she has pulled a "hes registering for college" to continue to get cs. I dont think there is a college in Ontario that accepts students with a grade 11 education and no equivalent certification.

In the first CC, the judge didnt want to touch the school records and college application. He just wanted to update child support.

What OP wants to know is how can he have the school records addressed. His ex has provided NO PROOF as to what kid is taking, why it has taken him three extra years to finish his diploma and what his long term plans are. There is no termination date in their agreement and his ex would be content to collect cs in perpetuity.

As parents, where does it become a responsibility to ensure kids are responsible members of society? He has no disabilities, no issues learning. He is lazy.
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Old 02-26-2017, 03:27 PM
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Perhaps I'm missing something? Did the CC judge make an Order?

Trinton this poster requested information regarding 'when will child no longer be considered a child of the marriage.' His relationship with his ex (child's mother is not relevant as it is in your situation). What relationship may be important (or not) is the relationship he has with his son. In some cases I've read on CanLii the court looks at not just whether or not the child unilaterally ceased involvement with the payor parent but how hard did the payor parent try to maintain a relationship with the dependent child. In other words, the court doesn't leave the onus only on the child to maintain contact with the payor parent. Reason for contact is to inform payor parent of child's progress in school. It has to be a 2-way effort, particularly in the case of an adult child as parent cannot typically obtain academic records from school once child is adult.

I don't think that merely saying "our door is always open" is what the court means. While it is a super-nice gesture I don't believe it fulfills a court's requirement for payor parent to make efforts to maintain relationship and obtain information from adult child. Perhaps a lawyer will tell you different. (Lawyers love to tell clients what their clients want to hear).

I'd therefore narrow your research on the relationship which is expected to be maintained in this set of circumstances.
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