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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2017, 09:12 PM
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Good point Rockscan. However, I do believe that when someone is trying to plead that they cannot afford to pay CS for their child due to having to pay for the current's spouses' children, all factors are considered.

Because there are no extenuating circumstances in this situation the poster will have to pay CS as he is considered a child of marriage.

The judge's smile (while remarking on the poster's income) may have been in response to the poster stating he wanted to end CS because he was currently supporting his unemployed girlfriend and her 3 post-secondary-age children?
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Old 02-25-2017, 09:41 PM
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I think this is a good case to look at with regards to CS. It seems that judges have quite a bit of latitude.

http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc...resultIndex=29

I wonder if paying CS directly to child would be a consideration in future? I know there are cases which cover that.
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Old 02-25-2017, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by arabian View Post
Good point Rockscan. However, I do believe that when someone is trying to plead that they cannot afford to pay CS for their child due to having to pay for the current's spouses' children, all factors are considered.
Again, this response only clearly shows how extremely misinformed you are. It has NOTHING to do with whether or not I can afford, or not afford to pay CS for my son. It has everything to do with whether or not I SHOULD, given the situation. If what was communicated to me, was that my son had completed the 6.5 credits he was short of his HS diploma during the year after he turned 18, I would not have sought legal advice, let alone filed the motion to terminate CS. I would have been far more open to having amicable discussions (if that is even possible) with the ex about the plans for our son, regarding his post-secondary education pursuits from that point on.

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Because there are no extenuating circumstances in this situation the poster will have to pay CS as he is considered a child of marriage.
To me, it doesn't really matter if I have to pay CS or not for now. Whether or not it ends now, or three years later, I will survive either way. The point of contention at this point is, WHAT is considered "attending school FULL TIME" for the purposes of a finding that "child" remains a "child of marriage"?

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The judge's smile (while remarking on the poster's income) may have been in response to the poster stating he wanted to end CS because he was currently supporting his unemployed girlfriend and her 3 post-secondary-age children?
FYI, I never mentioned anything in court about my current partner and her three children. The information was already on my financial form submitted. Did you actually read my initial post? AGAIN....my partner's children are currently aged D15, S17 and D17. Which one of these children are post-secondary aged? And AGAIN, with reference to my "unemployed" partner as you put it, she is about to start a new job this Wednesday in the hopes that everything works out well for her. She has been on a quest to pursue a career in the same line of profession as I have been in for the last 25 or so years of my life. Prior to that, she had fought for almost two years, submitting resume after resume to places similar to my place of employment to break into that career. She has actually done quite well, and made a lot of progress with every move she's made and I'm quite proud of her. Prior to that, she attended a community college to obtain a paralegal degree that sadly never worked out for her. So no, she is not a lazy, doing nothing "chronically unemployed" partner as you seem intent on portraying her as.....

....then again, coming from someone who collects SS living the easy life for now, as opposed to actually going to work to earn an income, I'm not sure how much weight can, and should be placed on your opinions.
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Old 02-25-2017, 10:45 PM
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1. Find new evidence that your son is not attending school full time. Have you contacted the school to determine what they consider a "full time student", in terms of course load? However, you tried this approach and it appears the judge didn't buy it. On the face of it, to me it seems not unreasonable that the judge would determine CS should continue until your son has had a shot at finishing high school, even though he is 20. The judge is probably hoping to encourage him to finish, which would be good for you too, as his father.
The evidence I have, thus far are his HS transcripts for the 2014/2015 school year indicating 23.5 credits completed, along with his 2015/2016 transcripts which indicate 25 credits completed. I also have his school schedule which outlines three courses for the 2016/2017 school year, which indicate he is scheduled to attend every Monday for four hours total for two courses, and every Friday for two hours for the other course, leaving him off Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. So, if I were to go to my superior to request that I work only six hours per week, but would like full-time pay, how happy would he be? This is not to mention the majority of grades appearing on his HS transcripts are atrocious at best. Mostly 50s and 60s. Only two 70s and two 80s. Quite a few dismally failing grades. As far as contacting the school is concerned, the principal already refused to disclose any information about him to me, because he is over 18. Post-secondary education would be beneficial to anyone......anyone that's realistically capable of completing it, that is.
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2. Put this aside and come back in a couple of years. It would be much easier to argue that a 23-year-old is not a child of the marriage than it would right now.
It seems to appear that way for now. I am toying with the idea of adjourning the next date in April, until I can scrape the funds together to retain a lawyer that will attend the next CC and intimidate and put that bitch into her place so that a new final order will be drawn up that will specify a termination date. At least at that point, there will be some sense of relief to me, as well as everyone else in my household. This woman (and I use that term very loosely) has already caused enough drama to us. It's time for it to end once in for all.

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3. Quit referring to your ex-wife as ex-bitch and useless excuse for a human being. I expect you probably think that you're very calm and neutral in court, but trust me, that kind of hateful attitude is difficult to conceal (after how many years?). Train yourself into using correct terms.
I don't refer to her as that in court. I refer to her as that, only in conversation.
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Old 02-25-2017, 10:47 PM
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you are very defensive LOL

FYI: I have worked since I was 16 and am fully self-sufficient and work to this very day (9 hr days or longer 6 days/week and sometimes 7 in fact). I was the major financial contributor to the business I had with my husband. Even if this were not the case, I have successfully defended my entitlement to indefinite SS many times in court. I was fortunate to have competent legal advice. With that said, let's go back to your situation. I was merely providing you with reality of perception of what you may face, should you decide to pursue your matter in court. If you don't have the fortitude to face my poking and prodding then perhaps you don't have what it takes to see this thing through? Family court is a shit-show and once you will soon see that it is a blood bath. You, yourself, stated that you became speechless during your CC. Look, that's totally understandable. No one (including myself) enters into family court with a high degree of knowledge.

I erred in saying your current spouse's children as college-aged. I apologize for that. It is not unheard-of for children 17 yrs old to be in post-secondary school. I thought your son had applied and was accepted to a college and was going to be doing his high-school upgrading/equivalency at the same time? When you were comparing the academic success with your son (19) I incorrectly assumed they were similar age.

If you read the last case that I posted you will see mention in there (read paragraph 37 onward if you don't want to read the whole case) that the college's definition of full-time status does not necessarily align with child support law. If it isn't in that case I've read it in others and you can simply do your own search. This is something to consider.

I won't waste any more of my time on this thread. You and only you have to decide if your hard-earned money is worth going to court for the next 2-3 years over this. I personally feel that education is not a waste of money for any parent. You seem to have been able to properly raise and motivate 3 young people in your household. Perhaps if you were to pay your son child support directly you could shed some of your parental guidance and wisdom?

Last edited by arabian; 02-25-2017 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 02-25-2017, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by arabian View Post
I erred in saying your current spouse's children as college-aged. I apologize for that. It is not unheard-of for children 17 yrs old to be in post-secondary school. I thought your son had applied and was accepted to a college and was going to be doing his high-school upgrading/equivalency at the same time? When you were comparing the academic success with your son (19) I incorrectly assumed they were similar age.
Yes, he has APPLIED. Accepted? No, not as far as I know as of yet. And with those dismal marks on his transcripts, it's doubtful he will be accepted.

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If you read the last case that I posted you will see mention in there (read paragraph 37 onward if you don't want to read the whole case) that the college's definition of full-time status does not necessarily align with child support law. If it isn't in that case I've read it in others and you can simply do your own search. This is something to consider.
Here's another case I found, that has extreme similarity to my situation:

https://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/do...ocompletePos=3

The only difference here, is the child in question does have learning disabilities. And the mother has provided it. I honestly wish I could find out the outcome to it though.

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I won't waste any more of my time on this thread. You and only you have to decide if your hard-earned money is worth going to court for the next 2-3 years over this. I personally feel that education is not a waste of money for any parent. You seem to have been able to properly raise and motivate 3 young people in your household. Perhaps if you were to pay your son child support directly you could shed some of your parental guidance and wisdom?
In the next two to three years, he will be twenty-two to twenty-three. Unfortunately with this process pending, it's doubtful that I will have any contact with my son. The values I would love to have instilled into him, would have been to encourage him to achieve what he wants, through hard work, not making stupid excuses. One only gets out of life what one puts into it, plain and simple. If it offends anyone that I take a very dim view of those who sit on their lazy ass collecting money off my tax dollars, or at someone else's expense, too bad so sad. Living with his good-for-nothing-but-complaining mother, what other values is he supposed to learn? To become yet another self-entitled brat that expects things to be handed to them on a silver platter? At the moment, I'm almost certain he is of the mindset that "daddy is trying to take away my money" is all. That said, how am I supposed to reach out to him?
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:13 AM
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To reach out to him why not simply call him and arrange to meet up for lunch somewhere? Then listen to him. See what his life is about and what his plans are for the immediate future (leave the long-term stuff for another time). You may or may not find out much the first time you meet with him. Have you had any contact whatsoever with him lately?
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by arabian View Post
To reach out to him why not simply call him and arrange to meet up for lunch somewhere? Then listen to him. See what his life is about and what his plans are for the immediate future (leave the long-term stuff for another time). You may or may not find out much the first time you meet with him. Have you had any contact whatsoever with him lately?
My partner and I have had numerous discussions about about the possibility of going down this road before. Both of us have come to the conclusion that it's likely not a good idea. Citing concerns it would only get back to his mother, that I'm only trying to find a way to weasel out of paying CS. We don't feel that having any contact with him will be genuine. We feel that his mother has sworn him to secrecy. I'm sure you understand our concerns. Yes, I texted him about two weeks ago, requesting his report card and this semester's schedule. The text went unanswered.
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Old 02-26-2017, 01:06 AM
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Speculating is what you are doing. You don't know what he is thinking. You don't know what his home life is like. Just keep that in mind.

Texting? Very impersonal but I guess it's easier than having to look at another person in the eye. No wonder you choked at the CC. ....
I'd try a one-on-one meeting with him. Yes ALL ALONE! Don't make it an interrogation though.
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Old 02-26-2017, 01:57 AM
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T

It seems to appear that way for now. I am toying with the idea of adjourning the next date in April, until I can scrape the funds together to retain a lawyer that will attend the next CC and intimidate and put that bitch into her place so that a new final order will be drawn up that will specify a termination date. At least at that point, there will be some sense of relief to me, as well as everyone else in my household. This woman (and I use that term very loosely) has already caused enough drama to us. It's time for it to end once in for all.


I don't refer to her as that in court. I refer to her as that, only in conversation.
... which is the problem. If you're still referring to your son's mother as a bitch, a useless excuse for a human being, and not even a woman years after your divorce, you obviously haven't moved on enough to be able to handle your relationship with her (and you do have to have a relationship with her, because you have a child together). This level of anger will be obvious to anyone, including a judge (I'm not surprised your CC went badly), and possibly also including your son. If I knew my father thought my mother was a piece of crap, I probably wouldn't want much to do with my father either.

For the future, hire a lawyer who can represent your matter without emotion getting in the way. And look into some kind of anger management, unless you want to be consumed with rage for the next few decades.
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