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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2014, 06:15 PM
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This is not right and it will back fire on you. I think pieces of the puzzle are missing. I understand you don't want to share details but we cant give you sound advise unless we know the true picture.
How come you say you are working in Ottawa? Why did the kids go with you and not stay with dad while you went to "temporarily" take care of mum. Does ur husband know you are working?
You seriously need a lawyers advise on this. Invest the couple hundred and get a consultation from a family lawyer.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2014, 06:28 PM
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In the interest of circumventing the argument the OP is going to put forth to justify her moving away with the kids, I'd just like to say that you need to separate out whatever bad relationship you've had with your stbx from the relationship he shares with the kids.

If your ex drinks and you two have a bad relationship, that's one thing. But unless you have an extensive CAS history which confirms that he's abused his children, you have zero basis for denying him access to his children. You lied to him about your intentions, he's visited the children and he clearly believes this situation is temporary. That you tricked him into this while he was kind enough to let you take the kids so that you could take care of your mother is disturbing.

Frankly, if he gets an attorney that's even relatively competent, you're probably screwed. And rightfully so, your children deserve to have a relationship with their father regardless of your personal history with your stbx. I warn you about filing flaming affidavits suggesting that your ex is abusive to the children without evidence.

In summary, you are doing the wrong thing. You may be very justified in wanting to leave your husband but there's a way to do it which doesn't involve lying to him and/or destroying the relationships between him and his children.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2014, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
I warn you about filing flaming affidavits suggesting that your ex is abusive to the children without evidence.
I agree with your whole post but I had just asked in another thread about lying in family court and from what i have learnt is that there is no penalty for lying under oath and in affidavits. Maybe the OP has been abused , we don't know. The fact is that most abuse is not reported and usually comes out when in family court. If OP does have evidence that will help her but is she doesn't she really needs to see a lawyer for this.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2014, 07:10 PM
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I agree with your whole post but I had just asked in another thread about lying in family court and from what i have learnt is that there is no penalty for lying under oath and in affidavits.
While its true that you may not be charged with perjury, it certainly doesn't help your credibility and in family court, credibility is EXTREMELY important. Once you go down the road of making crap up in your case, it follows you throughout your matter. There is definitely a penalty for lack of credibility when it comes to custody matters.

Quote:
Maybe the OP has been abused , we don't know. The fact is that most abuse is not reported and usually comes out when in family court.
The OPs past relationship with her husband is significant only to their divorce action. It isn't necessarily applicable to access to his children. Unless she has definitive proof that he's abused the children, she has zero right to block him having a relationship with his kids. That's the material point. She's free to do whatever she wants....she isn't free to take the kids though. If he abused the kids and she didn't report it, she'd be more incompetent a parent than he is...so I hope that's not the case.

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If OP does have evidence that will help her but is she doesn't she really needs to see a lawyer for this.
She does need to see a lawyer. But what she should be more concerned about is that he'll see one and they'll advise him to file an emergency motion to have his children returned to their home.

Again, she can leave for whatever reason she wants but she lied to take the children away from their father and that's not going to go over well in front of a judge.

Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 02-27-2014 at 07:40 PM. Reason: ..because...
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:16 PM
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[QUOTE=Pursuinghappiness;165512]While its true that you may not be charged with perjury, it certainly doesn't help your credibility and in family court, credibility is EXTREMELY important. Once you go down the road of making crap up in your case, it follows you throughout your matter. There is definitely a penalty for lack of credibility when it comes to custody matters.


Ahaaaa! That is what I understood too from my other thread about perjury! The key is to go all the way through trial. Most parties settle before trial. My ex has lied soooo much and got away with so many things but I cant wait for trial. That would be the day all the lies will come back and bite their a$$ and haunt them .
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk2382 View Post
He is my husband and we are not officially separated. I have asked him for a divorce twice but I believe he is in denial. He does believe this is temporary and we will be returning in the summer. He will never move to Ottawa and because of his drinking plus other issues we are not returning, well hopefully not. Amazing after everything that has happened he still thinks I will return. He might need to see actually papers before he realizes reality.
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The story I told him to justify my move to Ottawa was to care for my elderly Mom, which is true. Now I do not want to return. Yes we are living apart but he is under the assumption is only temporary. Bank accts, etc are still in both names.
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Yes it is true that I had no intention of returning. My mother is sick and we are living with her. Our bank account is still joint. He has made the trip to Ottawa twice since we moved.
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Originally Posted by Kirk2382 View Post
Once I start the process what do you think my chances are of being forced to move back with the kids? I am working and the kids will be in school?
So you lied to him and manipulated him into letting you take the kids out of town. You are establishing a status quo under false pretenses. You continue to benefit from the joint accounts. You make him do all the travelling to come see the kids.

You are busy engineering your own downfall. As soon as your ex figures out what's really going on, he could have your children back in his town, and you paying back all the money you've taken from the joint account as well as paying him child support. You could very easily lose custody as you have proven that you do not communicate well with him and that you negotiate in bad faith.

You are not separated. This behaviour can only backfire on you. I would advise you to tell him you want to end the relationship and remain in Ottawa. Come up with a plan, together with him, for where the children should reside and how you and he can both maintain a strong relationship with them. No matter what your opinion is of their father, he's always going to be their father and you cannot excise him out of their lives like that. They have as much right to be with him as with you. You obviously believe he's a crappy husband, and it's your choice and right to not to stay with him. But you can't take the children away from him without first proving in court that he's a crappy father. Right now, all you are proving is that you are a pretty crappy mother.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2014, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk2382 View Post
Obviously I'm not telling you everything about my husband and why we have left him.
You left him and took the kids. You made that decision for the kids so please it isn't "we left him".
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2014, 09:47 AM
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You said you had told your ex you wanted a divorce but that your ex is in denial. Has he made any attempt to change the elements of your relationship that were damaging it? Stopped drinking etc etc?

What do you think will be his reaction when you eventually get a round to telling him you are not returning to the home? Do you think he will hire himself a lawyer and file a emergency motion to have his children returned to their home? ( which would be the smart thing for him to do) or do you think he will come to you to plead your return?

If you think he would take the "lawyer" route you had better consult one quickly, because I doubt that you would have grounds to keep the children in Toronto. The jurisdiction would be Ottawa. You would have to retain legal counsel in Ottawa. You cannot just take off and lie and expect him to say " oh okay". I doubt if you will be successful, unless you can prove he is a danger to the children.

If he is in anyway amenable to working out a separation then you need to offer full access, with reduced child support to cover travel expenses. Offering to bring the children down on a regular basis, holidays etc.

Not knowing all the details it is hard to say what should or would happen. What is this situation was the other way around? How would you feel?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2014, 09:57 AM
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Here is a case from British Columbia which may or may not be similar to your situation.

N.A.F. v. C.D.M., 2013 BCSC 2294 (CanLII), <CanLII - 2013 BCSC 2294 (CanLII)

There are probably many more cases like this one.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2014, 10:49 AM
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(2013) from Ontario.

Van Roon v. Van Roon, 2013 ONCJ 276 (CanLII), <CanLII - 2013 ONCJ 276 (CanLII)
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