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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2017, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola1981 View Post
I understand your frustration. I have been surprised by his refusals but am trying to ensure I take the high ground on everything. My offers of mediation are genuine but also a record that I tried to be collaborative. All I know is that a court process is long and expensive. He knows this instability causes me stress and hopes that keeping this method up will cause me to cave to his demands (even though he refuses all my requests).
Make a reasonable offer to settle, then start the court process. You can't mediate with someone using that sort of tactic (denying access and not paying CS). However, make it clear that you are willing to negotiate through mediation, and that you will ask him to pay your court costs.

But you can't resort to that sort of unreasonable tactic yourself in response, or you'll look just as bad as him to a judge. Keep a journal of everything unreasonable he does, and get to court. You'll waste more money trying to make him be reasonable in mediation and conferences if you don't push for court right away. Call his bluff.
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Old 08-03-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
It doesnt sound like they have an agreement or order which FRO would need.

Walk before you run people.
That is precisely it. I have not been able to get him to agree to anything and am pretty sure he is lying about having engaged a lawyer.
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Old 08-03-2017, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Rioe View Post
Make a reasonable offer to settle, then start the court process. You can't mediate with someone using that sort of tactic (denying access and not paying CS). However, make it clear that you are willing to negotiate through mediation, and that you will ask him to pay your court costs.

But you can't resort to that sort of unreasonable tactic yourself in response, or you'll look just as bad as him to a judge. Keep a journal of everything unreasonable he does, and get to court. You'll waste more money trying to make him be reasonable in mediation and conferences if you don't push for court right away. Call his bluff.
Thanks, I'm hoping to get an offer out to him next week but for this weekend I just need to ensure that we have an agreed upon return date and time. He keeps agreeing to the pickup by him but not the return to me.

Unfortunately my lawyer has been on vacation through most of this and only available intermittently.

We're working with a status quo schedule that we had agreed to via email but he is trying to force me to move to 50/50 without my agreement. I have provided specific reasons why I disagree with the change. Worst case scenario he could request the police to intervene on the expected date of handoff which would not be good for the kids but I have backup for my requests for assurances.
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:11 PM
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It doesnt sound like they have an agreement or order which FRO would need. Walk before you run people.
LOL, if she has to wait for an agreement she might never get anything.

In a situation like this, file your Form 8 and let's get going.
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Going to Jail View Post
LOL, if she has to wait for an agreement she might never get anything.

In a situation like this, file your Form 8 and let's get going.
Still learning here, what is Form 8?
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:52 PM
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This is the Form
http://ontariocourtforms.on.ca/stati...r-8-e-1016.pdf

https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov....fc/part_2.html

So the issue is you're threatening to withhold the child from the father if he can not produce a return date? I understand this stance if he's threatened to abduct the child or you feel the child is at risk of harm in any way, which I doubt as you've allowed generous access. Don't get me wrong, I agree it seems like a douchy move to not give a return date...he's pissed you wont allow him an equal relationship with his kiddos.

In my opinion, I wouldn't withhold the children because of that reason (no return date). Instead I would put in writing something like:

Quote:
"In the future I would request that we have pick up/drop off dates and times identified before our exchanges as it is more manageable for everybody and it facilitates the stability and predictability that is so important for our kidlet.

Since you haven't responded to my request regarding a return date/time, we will stick to our regular schedule until we have had a chance to mediate and/or figure things out.

Please note that if you do not return our kidlet by this date/time, it will be considered withholding the child from me and I will act accordingly."

If I haven't received a response to this by ____, I will assume you agree to it.
You send that with a "readnotify.com" https://www.readnotify.com/ to have proof he read it.

Also, sorry if I missed it, does he have a record or history of child abuse?
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Old 08-04-2017, 12:14 AM
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He also refused to see the kids for several weeks, finally saying I should keep the house and kids and tell the kids he is dead.
Not nice, but just pure, exaggerated emotion. Separations are hard and emotions run wild.
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He is with his parents far from the kids' school and daycare so my having them made the most practical sense.
If it's transportation you're worried about does he or his parents drive? My child attends school in my ex's end of town and I have 50/50. Or what if he decides to move closer. Then would 50/50 be an option?

Quote:
The schedule was working well and he has had them for weeks when I had a work trip or the daycare was closed (his parents looked after the kids, not him)
How does he not see his kids when they're with his parents and he lives with his parents? They're in the same house. It seems that you're comfortable leaving the kids with him and his parents for long periods of time, kudos to you ..that's good. Trust is very important.
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Two weeks ago he refused to return the kids after his weekend and also would not return my messages. During the week he did not bring B5 to his day camp or follow his diet needs which causes issues and pain.
Remind him (another letter perhaps) that he can not try to institute 50/50 by himself. You both need to go hash it out in court or come to an agreement. I'll tell you right now, many fathers fight very hard for equal access in court so you should get up to date on court procedures and get to the bank because it's not going to be cheap, unless you qualify for Legal Aid.

I'd refrain from bringing up the poor diet stuff. Sounds like fluff, unless he's force feeding crayfish to a child with shellfish allergies or shoving peanuts up a nut allergy nose.

But my advice (not legal, but useful), don't listen to your lawyer, he wants war because for him war = $$.

Denial of access in the absence of any child abuse, drugs, harm, etc is .. dont get me started.

Send a letter like the one I posted above, and if he doesn't return them, take action, bringing along a printout that shows he read the e-mail. If it gets out of hand, go for an emergency motion. But it sounds like he always returns .. he's just unilaterally creating a 50/50 regime.

Last edited by LovingFather32; 08-04-2017 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 08-04-2017, 02:20 AM
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No agreement or court order in place means if he takes the children and does not bring them back he Can keep them until you go to court and secure access. So get to court get an interim agreement on parenting arrangements.

Do not allow the children to leave until you have at least a lawyers letter stating the agreed return date and time.
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachnana View Post
No agreement or court order in place means if he takes the children and does not bring them back he Can keep them until you go to court and secure access. So get to court get an interim agreement on parenting arrangements.



Do not allow the children to leave until you have at least a lawyers letter stating the agreed return date and time.


But that is a two way street... so she is allowed to not return the children to him but he isn't allowed to do the same? A lot of parents split summer holidays 50-50... this isn't uncommon but withholding access from him on his scheduled weekend looks just as bad on her as it does on him for not returning the kids. With no agreement or court order they both technically have equal access, she can't play gate keeper from him and he can't play gate keeper from her.


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Old 08-04-2017, 10:07 AM
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Perhaps what might help mediation move forward positively is to think of what could be agreed to taking into account BOTH parties desires. It sounds like hes unhappy that he cant share physical custody of the kids. Perhaps you could look at what he wants and what you are willing to try/live with.

Remember that some hostility comes from a sense of frustration that someone else's views arent being considered. Just because he lives with his parents or out of the school district doesnt make him a bad parent. You dont know what he would be like if he was given the opportunity to have his children half the time.

Keep in mind they are equally his children too and keeping them with him is a very strong message to you that you cannot dictate the terms of parenting. You can either come to this conclusion yourself for free or spend tens of thousands for a judge to tell you this.
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