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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2017, 09:58 AM
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Question Matrimonial home

So, a verbal agreement is in place (it's in writing but not signed since the ex always has an issue with something) that stated that she was going to stay in the home and take care of the mortgage and all related expenses. She is getting child support and spousal.

my friend he left the house and is now staying somewhere else, paying rent and all. She tried to get approved to buy him out and she cannot. He offered to let her buy him out just for the mortgage so he would get no equity but that she take on the LOC. she refused... he offered to take $5000 from the LOC and she took the rest.. her response.. tell me $10,000 and we will talk.. he told her that if she could not buy him out, they would need to sell sooner than later. she told him May to give the luxury to the kids to finish school (we keep telling her that the closing date can be something negotiated in the sell)... she's a bit melodramatic... so... now... she told him that she plans on moving out as soon as the for sale goes up.. expecting him to pay the mortgage (his half) and full chid support (of $1400)... he told her she was unreasonable.. that even if he would want to he cannot afford both... he's going to see a lawyer

Since the separation she has done so much.. he got 2 sofas from the house (she kept the other one) he got a TV , she kept the other one and the bedroom set which belonged to his mother.. she kept everything else... he told her that he did not need anything else for now so that he would leave it there for her and the kids but now she tells him that he won't get a thing... she changed the locks on the house without his permission... he asked her the other day to leave the door unlock because he may be late to pick the kids up so they could at least enter the house (she normally never locks the door only when he comes to pick the kids up) .. she said no.. the past summer when they were still sharing expenses she paid nothing... so he paid everything even her car payments.. she owes him over $1000...

anyways... anyone has any thoughts on this? you think that he would need to pay the mortgage AND child support even if that would mean going into the negative every 2 weeks cause he truly cannot afford it only because she's mad at him... her reason was fear of not finding a place for the children on time yet... it only took her less than a week to find a place in February ... she texted him saying so we agree to this cause I have found a place and they are waiting for me to sign...

ahhhhhhh the joys of divorce
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Old 02-10-2017, 01:06 PM
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Is your friend getting shared custody?

How often will he see the kids?
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Old 02-10-2017, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolita123 View Post
So, a verbal agreement is in place (it's in writing but not signed since the ex always has an issue with something) that stated that she was going to stay in the home and take care of the mortgage and all related expenses. She is getting child support and spousal.
Verbal agreements hold no value. It is called "hearsay" in the court and holds very little to no weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolita123 View Post
my friend he left the house and is now staying somewhere else, paying rent and all.
Your friend got bad legal advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolita123 View Post
She tried to get approved to buy him out and she cannot.
Then the house has to be sold and equalized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolita123 View Post
He offered to let her buy him out just for the mortgage so he would get no equity but that she take on the LOC. she refused...
Sell the house and end the financial relationship. STaying on the LOC is a stupid idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolita123 View Post
he offered to take $5000 from the LOC and she took the rest.. her response.. tell me $10,000 and we will talk..
So they put themselves in debt. Clearly no lawyers involved because they both equally owe that money back. They should stop this stupidity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolita123 View Post
he told her that if she could not buy him out, they would need to sell sooner than later. she told him May to give the luxury to the kids to finish school (we keep telling her that the closing date can be something negotiated in the sell)...
The other party is correct. The court will hold the property until such time the children are done school. The court will not realestate agents and potential buyers disrupting the children's lives during school.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolita123 View Post
she's a bit melodramatic... so... now... she told him that she plans on moving out as soon as the for sale goes up..
Would you want strangers walking through your house every day? Keeping a house in market ready condition is not easy. It has to be clean all the time. Your friend (boyfriend?) abandoned his responsibilities to the children and is now crappy on the parent he abandoned them to. You really need better friends who actually take care of their children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolita123 View Post
expecting him to pay the mortgage (his half) and full chid support (of $1400)... he told her she was unreasonable.. that even if he would want to he cannot afford both... he's going to see a lawyer
Well someone who is paying 1,400 a month in CS has good income. YOu said he was paying SS. As well, he is responsible for HALF the expenses of the home too. Again, you really need better friends.

If your friend goes to a good lawyer he will be told all this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolita123 View Post
ince the separation she has done so much.. he got 2 sofas from the house (she kept the other one) he got a TV , she kept the other one and the bedroom set which belonged to his mother.. she kept everything else...
Chattels (non-fixed appliances and furnature) are of low-to-no-value. Judges don't care about them. Unless your boyfriend has an art collection they don't sort out nonsense that you can buy on Kijiji.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolita123 View Post
he told her that he did not need anything else for now so that he would leave it there for her and the kids but now she tells him that he won't get a thing...
Again, unless they are herloom items that have real value fighting over used furnature makes you look (a) cheap and (b) stupid before the court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolita123 View Post
she changed the locks on the house without his permission... he asked her the other day to leave the door unlock because he may be late to pick the kids up so they could at least enter the house (she normally never locks the door only when he comes to pick the kids up) .. she said no..
If he is on title to the house he should have a lock smith come and remove them. He is totally allowed to do this. But, it just creates conflict. You stated your boyfriend moved out. So why does he need to gain access to the house?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolita123 View Post
the past summer when they were still sharing expenses she paid nothing... so he paid everything even her car payments.. she owes him over $1000...
Really. You are going to fight over nonsense like that? I hope you don't go to court with such nonsense. Just getting to a motion will cost you 15,000 in legal fees.

Your boyfriend has already abandoned the most important thing in all this... The children. Again, you need better friends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolita123 View Post
anyways... anyone has any thoughts on this?
You need better friends who actually take care of their responsibilities (children).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolita123 View Post
you think that he would need to pay the mortgage AND child support even if that would mean going into the negative every 2 weeks cause he truly cannot afford it only because she's mad at him...
Child support is the right of the children. Not their fault their father abandoned their care to their mother for 1,400 a month.

Also, he is named on the mortgage so he is legally responsible for it. They can let it go to default but, that is a stupid idea. They are BOTH responsible. I would recommend that your abandoning friend at least not abandon the equity in the home by doing something stupid again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolita123 View Post
her reason was fear of not finding a place for the children on time yet... it only took her less than a week to find a place in February ... she texted him saying so we agree to this cause I have found a place and they are waiting for me to sign...
Then the house can be sold when they move. I don't see what the problem is?

Penny wise... Pound foolish your friend is being. Losing in court your friend will be doing. Abandoning his children your friend has done. Higher CS and SS your friend my be ordered. Costs your friend may be ordered.

Spending 10,000s of thousands to recover a couple of thousand is always a STUPID idea.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:29 PM
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I don't see where this person- "friend" or "boyfriend" - has been described as ABANDONING his children?!?!
I would ASSUME the OP is suggesting $1400 a month combined CS and SS? Who knows, it's nothing that can be guessed.

If a divorce happens in a matrimonial home usually one parent leaves. That's not child abandonment.
My ex left, I paid all the mortgage and bills and kept the one child who wanted to stay. My ex never "abandoned" her child. And she attacked him as she left just as she attacked me. It still isn't abandonment, and it's not proper to suggest "finding better friends". IMO anyways.

OP- verbal agreement will mean nothing as Tayken says, and regular household stuff isn't worth fighting over. The door locks are not allowed to be changed unless by order, of which I am sure there isn't one.
My ex would barge in freely all the time, sometimes just to look around. Once I had company over. Mutual friend. Awkward, for her.

The house needs an appraisal or be put up for sale, and a separation agreement reached, and move on. Period.
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Verbal agreements hold no value. It is called "hearsay" in the court and holds very little to no weight.



Your friend got bad legal advice.



Then the house has to be sold and equalized.



Sell the house and end the financial relationship. STaying on the LOC is a stupid idea.



So they put themselves in debt. Clearly no lawyers involved because they both equally owe that money back. They should stop this stupidity.



The other party is correct. The court will hold the property until such time the children are done school. The court will not realestate agents and potential buyers disrupting the children's lives during school.



Would you want strangers walking through your house every day? Keeping a house in market ready condition is not easy. It has to be clean all the time. Your friend (boyfriend?) abandoned his responsibilities to the children and is now crappy on the parent he abandoned them to. You really need better friends who actually take care of their children.



Well someone who is paying 1,400 a month in CS has good income. YOu said he was paying SS. As well, he is responsible for HALF the expenses of the home too. Again, you really need better friends.

If your friend goes to a good lawyer he will be told all this.



Chattels (non-fixed appliances and furnature) are of low-to-no-value. Judges don't care about them. Unless your boyfriend has an art collection they don't sort out nonsense that you can buy on Kijiji.



Again, unless they are herloom items that have real value fighting over used furnature makes you look (a) cheap and (b) stupid before the court.



If he is on title to the house he should have a lock smith come and remove them. He is totally allowed to do this. But, it just creates conflict. You stated your boyfriend moved out. So why does he need to gain access to the house?



Really. You are going to fight over nonsense like that? I hope you don't go to court with such nonsense. Just getting to a motion will cost you 15,000 in legal fees.

Your boyfriend has already abandoned the most important thing in all this... The children. Again, you need better friends.



You need better friends who actually take care of their responsibilities (children).



Child support is the right of the children. Not their fault their father abandoned their care to their mother for 1,400 a month.

Also, he is named on the mortgage so he is legally responsible for it. They can let it go to default but, that is a stupid idea. They are BOTH responsible. I would recommend that your abandoning friend at least not abandon the equity in the home by doing something stupid again.



Then the house can be sold when they move. I don't see what the problem is?

Penny wise... Pound foolish your friend is being. Losing in court your friend will be doing. Abandoning his children your friend has done. Higher CS and SS your friend my be ordered. Costs your friend may be ordered.

Spending 10,000s of thousands to recover a couple of thousand is always a STUPID idea.

Good Luck!
Tayken

I agree with Tayken.

This sounds like a new girlfriend (green-eyed perhaps) getting worked up about her boyfriend's financial commitment to his ex and children. Nothing more.
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnut View Post
I don't see where this person- "friend" or "boyfriend" - has been described as ABANDONING his children?!?!
I would ASSUME the OP is suggesting $1400 a month combined CS and SS? Who knows, it's nothing that can be guessed.

If a divorce happens in a matrimonial home usually one parent leaves. That's not child abandonment.
My ex left, I paid all the mortgage and bills and kept the one child who wanted to stay. My ex never "abandoned" her child. And she attacked him as she left just as she attacked me. It still isn't abandonment, and it's not proper to suggest "finding better friends". IMO anyways.

OP- verbal agreement will mean nothing as Tayken says, and regular household stuff isn't worth fighting over. The door locks are not allowed to be changed unless by order, of which I am sure there isn't one.
My ex would barge in freely all the time, sometimes just to look around. Once I had company over. Mutual friend. Awkward, for her.

The house needs an appraisal or be put up for sale, and a separation agreement reached, and move on. Period.
When someone leaves the matrimonial home and their children, without interim child custody (legally) resolved, they have technically "abandoned" the marriage, matrimonial home and the children. Of course there are valid reasons (documented domestic violence) that the court would take into consideration.

When people want to leave their respective relationships, and there are children involved, they should seek immediate legal counsel.
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnut View Post
If a divorce happens in a matrimonial home usually one parent leaves. That's not child abandonment.
Yes it is. Leaving the matrimonial is one of the biggest mistakes you can make in a divorce matter. If you are male and you leave the house, you have pretty much lost the kids forever. Just like that.

And yes, you have abandoned them. You left them alone with some other adult.

It is not "usual" to leave. It is wrong to leave. Nobody getting divorced should ever leave the matrimonial home.
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
Yes it is. Leaving the matrimonial is one of the biggest mistakes you can make in a divorce matter. If you are male and you leave the house, you have pretty much lost the kids forever. Just like that.

And yes, you have abandoned them. You left them alone with some other adult.

It is not "usual" to leave. It is wrong to leave. Nobody getting divorced should ever leave the matrimonial home.
I don't agree.
I'm a male. My ex- a female- left the matrimonial home.
She lied on affidavits, was disgusting to deal with, and ended up going for my jugular in the split. I think at 45 she wanted to cash out, and when she realized she wasnt going to get as much as she thought she went ballistic.
I should be angry and bitter.
But to ME she abandoned me, not her kids.
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Old 03-01-2017, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
Yes it is. Leaving the matrimonial is one of the biggest mistakes you can make in a divorce matter. If you are male and you leave the house, you have pretty much lost the kids forever. Just like that.

And yes, you have abandoned them. You left them alone with some other adult.

It is not "usual" to leave. It is wrong to leave. Nobody getting divorced should ever leave the matrimonial home.
Disagreed. sometimes it's best to move out and see them at an apartment then to be constantly yelled at in front of your kids by some crazy child support hungry maniac, every day. But from a legal stand point, I do agree that staying in the house would not give the other parent any advantage. But do keep in mind that the status quo is what existed prior to the separation, not what is created after the separation.

I see one problem here and that is you (OP) are trying to correlate mortgage payments with child support. completely separate issues. If the mortgage payments put you in an state of undue hardship however, then why do you need a house? I don't think you can afford it. I think the house should be sold. May be able to list it for sale without the other parent's consent.

Last edited by trinton; 03-01-2017 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 03-01-2017, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
Yes it is. Leaving the matrimonial is one of the biggest mistakes you can make in a divorce matter. If you are male and you leave the house, you have pretty much lost the kids forever. Just like that.

And yes, you have abandoned them. You left them alone with some other adult.

It is not "usual" to leave. It is wrong to leave. Nobody getting divorced should ever leave the matrimonial home.

FWIW I was the one who moved out ("left") - but before I did so, I had a written, signed, witnessed, notarized agreement with the ex stating that we were both committed to equal and shared parenting, we both agreed that my moving to an apartment would not affect this commitment, and that Kid would begin spending overnights with me as of [date]. That was all - no formal separation agreement yet, no details of equalization or CS or SS. I was told by my lawyer that this would hold up in court in case ex wanted to argue that I abandoned him and Kid, but never put that to the test.
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