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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 03-16-2011, 02:01 PM
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Default Make up visits!

Hello everybody....

I have a question about make up visits. I have a number of visits blocked by mum. Some of them were because I was out of country (sent notification letter to mum's lawyer with proposal for make up visits) some of them just blocked...

Lat situation was like that...
Mum - kid sick. it;s better not take him outside you will have your make on other day. But I it's your decision (year lets show judge how horoble father I am taking sick kid)

Father - ok.
(kid got better)
father - so what about make up on this week end
mum - you know what I changed my mind - no make ups ...
****************

question is:
Is it any regulations about make up visits ? I meant do I really have to choose between take sick kid or loose my pressures hours with him at all ?

Thank you
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Old 03-16-2011, 02:54 PM
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First, it is parenting time, not visits. You are not a prisoner, nor are you in the hospital. It is your time to parent the child. IMO, considering/calling it a "visit" is profane and demeaning.

Moving along....

In situations like this, I generally resort to take the kid.

Reasoning - you, as a parent, are equally capable of looking after the child. Notwithstanding that, part of being a parent is caring for a child when they are ill. I've found when you allow them to use certain reasons for changing the parenting time schedule, there is the possibly they may take advantage of your compliance, and start creating other matters so they can deny access.

Generally, unless the kid can't get out of bed or they have a Dr's note, you exercise your parenting time.

Otherwise, I hope you communicated all this via email. Because if you don't well, there is no record of her agreeing to makeup time. If there is, you bring that to court if/when you have file any motion, with part of that motion for lost time due to her denial of access and using her emails as proof against her.

In future, should you be so inclined to agree that the child remain with her due to illness, you get your makeup time agreed to in writing prior to you agreeing to any alternations. So if she emails you asking that you not take the child tomorrow, you say "Due your previous denials of access in situations similar to this, I will only be agreeable to this change on the condition that I get to exercise my missed parenting time at the nearest date. I am available on x, y and x z dates. Please confirm in writing as to wish one also works for you. Otherwise I intend to exercise my parenting time as scheduled."

For time you missed of your own accord, you may not be able to work anything out as it was your fault. But you should ALWAYS ASK to make it up. State that you will out of town from X to Y dates, and that you will be unable to exercise your parenting time inbetween. Request that you be provided makeup time at the earliest date convenient to her (it will be on her schedule though). Then document her response and go from there.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
First, it is parenting time, not visits. You are not a prisoner, nor are you in the hospital. It is your time to parent the child. IMO, considering/calling it a "visit" is profane and demeaning.

Moving along....
Yea I agree. I hate that word. Make me feel really bad. Access time even worst. But even in court order it I have "Commencing immediately on a without prejudice basis, the access regime for the father shall be:"

Quote:
In situations like this, I generally resort to take the kid.

Reasoning - you, as a parent, are equally capable of looking after the child. Notwithstanding that, part of being a parent is caring for a child when they are ill. I've found when you allow them to use certain reasons for changing the parenting time schedule, there is the possibly they may take advantage of your compliance, and start creating other matters so they can deny access.

Generally, unless the kid can't get out of bed or they have a Dr's note, you exercise your parenting time.
Good point. But looks like my love to the kid work against me and him... He had a fever 39 (according to mum) Winter.Take him to the car. Drive back and force ... It's very pailful to choose. So I choose more paint for me less for him..

Quote:
Otherwise, I hope you communicated all this via email. Because if you don't well, there is no record of her agreeing to makeup time. If there is, you bring that to court if/when you have file any motion, with part of that motion for lost time due to her denial of access and using her emails as proof against her.
All in emails ... Will do.

Quote:
In future, should you be so inclined to agree that the child remain with her due to illness, you get your makeup time agreed to in writing prior to you agreeing to any alternations. So if she emails you asking that you not take the child tomorrow, you say "Due your previous denials of access in situations similar to this, I will only be agreeable to this change on the condition that I get to exercise my missed parenting time at the nearest date. I am available on x, y and x z dates. Please confirm in writing as to wish one also works for you. Otherwise I intend to exercise my parenting time as scheduled."

For time you missed of your own accord, you may not be able to work anything out as it was your fault. But you should ALWAYS ASK to make it up. State that you will out of town from X to Y dates, and that you will be unable to exercise your parenting time between. Request that you be provided makeup time at the earliest date convenient to her (it will be on her schedule though). Then document her response and go from there.

Thank you a lot will have email ready just in case.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:27 PM
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With a fever of 39, I agree it would probably be in the child's best interests not to take them out of the house.

But, you need to protect your time with your child.

In this instance where she has now changed her mind, I would email her stating something to the effect of:

Further to our conversation of X date regarding make up time with [child] due to [child's] illness on Y date, being my regularly scheduled parenting time, I wish to voice my disappointment regarding your unilateral decision to terminate previously agreed makeup time with [child].

As discussed on [date the child was sick] we agreed that, in exchange for not removing [child] from your residence for my parenting time on that date, I would be entitled to an alternate date to make up my missed parenting time. This was agreed in good faith and taking into consideration [child's] best interests. I am disheartened that you have now unilaterally determined that making up my missed parenting time is now unnecessary and are reneging on our previous agreement.

I respectfully request you reconsider your position, and agree to provide me with make-up time with [child] at the earliest possible date. It is my belief that arranging an alternate date due to [child]'s illness was in [child]'s best interests. Further, I believe that each parents parenting time is important for the continued growth of the child.

As such, I am available on X, Y and Z dates, and would be willing to accomodate my make up time on such dates.


Then document her reply. If she replies with "no", if you can't not say anything, reply with "I must express my disappointment with your position and will note this for future reference should this scenario arise again."

But be civil and keep it to email.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
First, it is parenting time, not visits. You are not a prisoner, nor are you in the hospital. It is your time to parent the child. IMO, considering/calling it a "visit" is profane and demeaning.

Moving along....

In situations like this, I generally resort to take the kid.

Reasoning - you, as a parent, are equally capable of looking after the child. Notwithstanding that, part of being a parent is caring for a child when they are ill. I've found when you allow them to use certain reasons for changing the parenting time schedule, there is the possibly they may take advantage of your compliance, and start creating other matters so they can deny access.

Generally, unless the kid can't get out of bed or they have a Dr's note, you exercise your parenting time.

Otherwise, I hope you communicated all this via email. Because if you don't well, there is no record of her agreeing to makeup time. If there is, you bring that to court if/when you have file any motion, with part of that motion for lost time due to her denial of access and using her emails as proof against her.

In future, should you be so inclined to agree that the child remain with her due to illness, you get your makeup time agreed to in writing prior to you agreeing to any alternations. So if she emails you asking that you not take the child tomorrow, you say "Due your previous denials of access in situations similar to this, I will only be agreeable to this change on the condition that I get to exercise my missed parenting time at the nearest date. I am available on x, y and x z dates. Please confirm in writing as to wish one also works for you. Otherwise I intend to exercise my parenting time as scheduled."

For time you missed of your own accord, you may not be able to work anything out as it was your fault. But you should ALWAYS ASK to make it up. State that you will out of town from X to Y dates, and that you will be unable to exercise your parenting time inbetween. Request that you be provided makeup time at the earliest date convenient to her (it will be on her schedule though). Then document her response and go from there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
With a fever of 39, I agree it would probably be in the child's best interests not to take them out of the house.

But, you need to protect your time with your child.

In this instance where she has now changed her mind, I would email her stating something to the effect of:

Further to our conversation of X date regarding make up time with [child] due to [child's] illness on Y date, being my regularly scheduled parenting time, I wish to voice my disappointment regarding your unilateral decision to terminate previously agreed makeup time with [child].

As discussed on [date the child was sick] we agreed that, in exchange for not removing [child] from your residence for my parenting time on that date, I would be entitled to an alternate date to make up my missed parenting time. This was agreed in good faith and taking into consideration [child's] best interests. I am disheartened that you have now unilaterally determined that making up my missed parenting time is now unnecessary and are reneging on our previous agreement.

I respectfully request you reconsider your position, and agree to provide me with make-up time with [child] at the earliest possible date. It is my belief that arranging an alternate date due to [child]'s illness was in [child]'s best interests. Further, I believe that each parents parenting time is important for the continued growth of the child.

As such, I am available on X, Y and Z dates, and would be willing to accomodate my make up time on such dates.


Then document her reply. If she replies with "no", if you can't not say anything, reply with "I must express my disappointment with your position and will note this for future reference should this scenario arise again."

But be civil and keep it to email.
thanks man
I wish I write like that in English ... Problem is that I can not write her directly. Only emergency communications regarding kid. So I probably better to write to her lawyer and he will not replay as always ...
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkingDAD View Post
Problem is that I can not write her directly. Only emergency communications regarding kid.
Why, is there a restraining order?

Quote:
So I probably better to write to her lawyer and he will not replay as always ...
Her lawyer is under no obligation to reply to you. They would have to bring it up with your ex first and then see what she has to say, if anything.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
Why, is there a restraining order?
Nope
I just tired of 100s of emails. Asked communication by email only emergency and child related. Everything else in communication book in English. Book gone after first visit I gave it...


Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
Her lawyer is under no obligation to reply to you. They would have to bring it up with your ex first and then see what she has to say, if anything.

Well
Problem is that he do not even transfer that to her. Of course that from her words... But that would not surprise me I think they also sign papers using her signature ...
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkingDAD View Post
Nope
I just tired of 100s of emails. Asked communication by email only emergency and child related. Everything else in communication book in English. Book gone after first visit I gave it...
Keep trying. Actually, ignore her request to keep it to emergencies IMO. An emergency dictates fast action, which would be a phone call.

You did say things "child related", so any concerns you have relating to your parenting time, the child, communication with the child on her time etc. all would fall under the "child related" catagory. So I would email my "child related" concerns.

If they come back and say they only wish it for emergency matters, I would reply to them that communicating via email for emergency matters is inappropriate as response times will vary wildly. Any concern that requires either parents immediate notification would justify a telephone call to that parent.

But with no restraining order, you are free to communicate as you feel most comfortable.

Quote:
But that would not surprise me I think they also sign papers using her signature ...
That would be unethical and the lawyer could be disbarred or severely punished for that. I really, really (I mean really) doubt your ex's lawyer is forging her signature.....
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
Keep trying. Actually, ignore her request to keep it to emergencies IMO. An emergency dictates fast action, which would be a phone call.
Actually that my request. She is writing so much shit that have to stop it. That like running text line on bottom of a screen... Phone is included bu she do not have phone so email left.

Quote:
You did say things "child related", so any concerns you have relating to your parenting time, the child, communication with the child on her time etc. all would fall under the "child related" catagory. So I would email my "child related" concerns.
I did say child related emergency only ...

Quote:
If they come back and say they only wish it for emergency matters, I would reply to them that communicating via email for emergency matters is inappropriate as response times will vary wildly. Any concern that requires either parents immediate notification would justify a telephone call to that parent.

But with no restraining order, you are free to communicate as you feel most comfortable.
Another reason why I want to limit communication to the lowest possible level because everything what I said will end up on affidavit twisted and with needed for them interpretation...

Quote:
That would be unethical and the lawyer could be disbarred or severely punished for that. I really, really (I mean really) doubt your ex's lawyer is forging her signature.....
Lets be clear about that. I can tell only what I know for sure.
1. I have email from her where she said I DID NOT SEE IT or WHEN I SIGNED THAT THAT WAS NOT THERE. Or I specifically I DID NOT SIGN ANY DOCUMENTS (emails)

2. I can see her signature on a lot of documents what I have and every month on the back of Child Support cheque. They are not the same ... I mean you can see that idea the same but I would argue that it the same person.
I am thinking to bring it before court with occasion and I definitely will bring it up on a trial if we are will have one what I hope not...
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Old 03-17-2011, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by WorkingDAD View Post
Actually that my request. She is writing so much shit that have to stop it. That like running text line on bottom of a screen... Phone is included bu she do not have phone so email left.
Dude, let her write all her woes and how you are the cause of them all. Because really, who cares? Ignore the fluff, stick to matters strictly relating to the children.

If she emails you saying how bad a dad she thinks you are, ignore it. That is her perspective, she is entitled to it. You don't care.

Go back to emails, but grow a filter of information you need to reply to and crap that is emotional drivel or venom that she has decided to spew your way and respond accordingly. (Read - ignore her bs emails where she re-lives her marriage with you and how much she hates you now and that you were the cause of the all the relationships probleims, and only respond to matters of relevance to the children).

With my ex, if her email doesn't directly relate to the parenting of the child I ignore it. If it is strictly criticism, I ignore it. If she says she is doing something I don't agree with, I simply state that "I don't believe X to be in [child]'s best interests and do not agree with your proceeding in such manner." Then drop it.

With the lawyer stuff, I bet some of the stuff was there, or was discussed prior to her signing as being a revision/insert.

I wouldn't push this much, as it doesn't help you in any way with parenting time/custody. If you have solid proof, you can maybe back her lawyer into a corner, but that isn't the person you really need to deal with.

Last edited by HammerDad; 03-17-2011 at 11:44 AM.
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