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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2017, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by trinton View Post
That's their problem not yours. They either finish the job or you hire a new contractor to finish it and sue them for the difference. But that brings us back to this discussion we are already having. Would a lawyer.. yeah let's just stop going in circles.


Disagree... if you hire a contractor to demo a wall or something but neither of you have any idea what is in that wall, it is not the contractors fault. Possibly your fault as the home owner for not knowing your home? Similar to a lawyer... if you don't provide all the details up front, yet the lawyer discovers you are dealing with an unreasonable ex and you were not 100% forthcoming, that is your fault. But very typical response of someone who never wants to take responsibility. Life happens and things come up but let's blame the contractor and lawyer for not being mind readers.


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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2017, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
Disagree... if you hire a contractor to demo a wall or something but neither of you have any idea what is in that wall, it is not the contractors fault. Possibly your fault as the home owner for not knowing your home? Similar to a lawyer... if you don't provide all the details up front, yet the lawyer discovers you are dealing with an unreasonable ex and you were not 100% forthcoming, that is your fault. But very typical response of someone who never wants to take responsibility. Life happens and things come up but let's blame the contractor and lawyer for not being mind readers.


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False. I take responsibility whenever I am at fault. If a contractor misquotes or doesn't know what the hell he is doing or talking about because a) he doesn't have the experience b) he is desperate for a job, and enters into a _BINDING_ contract, he is _BOUND_ to finish the job. If he doesn't, then the law is very simple, you hire another contractor to finish the work and you sue the old contractor for the difference. If the contractor sets realistic expectations and you both agree in the contract that the quoted price may fluctuate depending on what's inside the wall, then that is different.


You see the difference between a Family Law Lawyer and a contractor is that the lawyer doesn't quote the cost of the litigation in the agreement. I already posted that a lawyer and contractor don't work the same. Did you read that post? Doesn't sound like you did. However, if a lawyer says they will get the job done with $9000 (Setting false expectations) yes of course I'm going to get pissed off at the lawyer. That is what the lawyer knowing how unreasonable the other parent was/is. If you're going to throw numbers out, then why won't you just say you could expect anywhere from $5000 to over $60,000 to accomplish this. Lawyers should be honest up front setting realistic expectations. Anyone who you hire to do anything for you should. They're the experts, not us.

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“Always” and “Never” statements are frequently used by people when they are arguing in order to emphasize or illustrate the merits of their position. “Always” and “Never” statements are usually exaggerations, which serve an illustrative purpose and are understood by both parties to be hyperbole and not literal. As the self-contradicting adage says, “Always and Never statements are always false and never true.”

“Always” and “Never” statements are also very frequently used by individuals who suffer from personality disorders, because they fit neatly into the split, black and white world of their thinking. They are most often used in an accusatory, argumentative or self-pitying way.

Last edited by trinton; 04-05-2017 at 10:53 AM.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2017, 11:12 AM
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Wow that ^ was uncalled for.

I think the current, typical manner in retaining lawyers works if the client has their shit together:

You meet with the potential lawyer and discuss your situation and of course the costs anticipated/typical for a contested divorce. At this point the lawyer knows little about your situation unless you have provided a brief/summary prior to your initial meeting with the lawyer. Many people do not do this. You also have to review, very carefully, your expectations with the lawyer. Hindsight is futile.

You pay a retainer (let's say 5,000.00 for example). You sign a retainer agreement which sets out the arrangement in great detail.

You ask for a monthly invoice. Many people do not do this. The monthly invoice has a break-down of costs. You will see very clearly of how much it costs each and every time you phone/email or meet with your lawyer. You will see how much it costs for the lawyer to send and receive communication on your behalf. After receiving your first invoice you can extrapolate the amounts and get a fairly good idea of how much the matter is likely to cost you. Of course, you have already set out a "plan of action(s)" with your lawyer.

At this point you make the decision to carry on with this lawyer or hire another one. If you decide to dismiss the lawyer, you will receive a final invoice/statement and if there is money left over from your $5,000.00 (how many times did you call/meet with your lawyer?) you will receive a refund.

I do not see any mystery in this process at all. If client wants to micro-manage the lawyer then the costs will be reflected on the bill.

If I were a lawyer I would never agree to a set amount to take a matter through trial. There are too many unknowns (client or client's ex may be suffering from mental health issues - to just name one).

I'd recommend retaining a lawyer and be as organized as possible. Also helps if one is realistic in expectations.
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Old 04-05-2017, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
Obviously settling would be ideal but assuming the other party is just dragging out as much as possible what can a lawyer do to just get to trial and skip all the useless stuff. Most of the things you are saying Orleans are on the table (more money,. Manage the case, depending on complexity)
Something I became aware of through the years of dealing with a lawyer was the power of the lawyer's personal contacts with opposing counsel. This is something that the lawyer gains through the years of practicing law. When a lawyer can pick up the phone and have a conversation with opposing counsel it can often lead to resolution and insight into some issues.
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Old 04-05-2017, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
Disagree... if you hire a contractor to demo a wall or something but neither of you have any idea what is in that wall, it is not the contractors fault. Possibly your fault as the home owner for not knowing your home? Similar to a lawyer... if you don't provide all the details up front, yet the lawyer discovers you are dealing with an unreasonable ex and you were not 100% forthcoming, that is your fault. But very typical response of someone who never wants to take responsibility. Life happens and things come up but let's blame the contractor and lawyer for not being mind readers.


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Very typical response from an self centered, ignorant, ALWAYS and NEVER person.

Be very cautious of people who use NEVER and ALWAYS to negatively describe other people.

Quote:
“Always” and “Never” statements are frequently used by people when they are arguing in order to emphasize or illustrate the merits of their position. “Always” and “Never” statements are usually exaggerations, which serve an illustrative purpose and are understood by both parties to be hyperbole and not literal. As the self-contradicting adage says, “Always and Never statements are always false and never true.”

“Always” and “Never” statements are also very frequently used by individuals who suffer from personality disorders, because they fit neatly into the split, black and white world of their thinking. They are most often used in an accusatory, argumentative or self-pitying way.

Not sure why this was removed from my initial post ? If you're going to direct something negative at others be prepared for a response. We're all entitled to our opinions.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2017, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by arabian View Post
You pay a retainer (let's say 5,000.00 for example). You sign a retainer agreement which sets out the arrangement in great detail.

You ask for a monthly invoice. Many people do not do this. The monthly invoice has a break-down of costs. You will see very clearly of how much it costs each and every time you phone/email or meet with your lawyer. You will see how much it costs for the lawyer to send and receive communication on your behalf. After receiving your first invoice you can extrapolate the amounts and get a fairly good idea of how much the matter is likely to cost you. Of course, you have already set out a "plan of action(s)" with your lawyer.

At this point you make the decision to carry on with this lawyer or hire another one. If you decide to dismiss the lawyer, you will receive a final invoice/statement and if there is money left over from your $5,000.00 (how many times did you call/meet with your lawyer?) you will receive a refund.

I do not see any mystery in this process at all. If client wants to micro-manage the lawyer then the costs will be reflected on the bill.

If I were a lawyer I would never agree to a set amount to take a matter through trial. There are too many unknowns (client or client's ex may be suffering from mental health issues - to just name one).

I'd recommend retaining a lawyer and be as organized as possible. Also helps if one is realistic in expectations.
I decided I was going to un-ignore you. I agree with you here. It is how it is with my present lawyer. Up front lawyer. Honest expectations from the get go, what to expect, what not to expect, best strategy to take, and avoiding telling me what I want to hear or don't want to hear, but rather telling me what a judge would say, etc.

Upfront retainer, monthly invoices, and minimum retainer every month to move forward with.

The previous lawyer didn't even give me a retainer agreement! No terms of the retainer were discussed or agreed upon, a retainer agreement did not exist. The lawyer she just came up with random charges and crap as the case went on. All of sudden a year into the retainer decided to charge me for the time to do dockets and charge me for parking. New lawyer doesn't charge me for any of that crap and even allows me to use his parking whenever I am in the area and need to go somewhere, for free! Every-time I received a bill from the old lawyer I felt like I had received a cellphone bill from Rogers. Like whoa whoa, I don't ever recall signing up for the my5 package.

Being organized definitely helps, a tabbed binder with all your crap, and meeting with the lawyer prepared, notes on everything you want to discuss, taking notes when meeting with the lawyer, etc.

It also helps when the lawyer is organized and doesn't spend hours trying to find documents from your file, while charging you for the time.

You don't want to be this guy with your lawyer, or your contractor:


Last edited by trinton; 04-05-2017 at 12:26 PM.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2017, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by trinton View Post
Very typical response from an self centered, ignorant, ALWAYS and NEVER person.



Be very cautious of people who use NEVER and ALWAYS to negatively describe other people.









Not sure why this was removed from my initial post ? If you're going to direct something negative at others be prepared for a response. We're all entitled to our opinions.


I will never care what you think of me. And it wasn't removed from your original post so maybe you should check that out instead of always assuming people are removing things.


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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2017, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
I will never care what you think of me. And it wasn't removed from your original post so maybe you should check that out instead of always assuming people are removing things.


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Yes it was actually. Those 2 sentences are not there. I don't see them. I don't care what you think of me either. But I know what a well educated mental health professional would think of you regarding this whole "maybe you should" and " never" and " you always" thing.

Just the mere fact that you have responded to me proves that you cared about what I think of you. tata.
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Old 04-05-2017, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
Do you mean the part where the Small Claims docket is filled with people suing their contractors for not doing the work? Or limited retainers?
A valid point though. In addition, most contractors work on a time-and-material basis even if they give you a single quote. This is why the fixed cost bids end up jamming the small claims docket.

There is no perfect estimation model even in the most standard of estimating systems like construction. All sorts of things will disrupt the fixed price. Weather, etc... So, with a fixed price you can be assured that the estimate has been padded significantly to cover costs. Good contractors do this but, charge much more.

A cheap lawyer, contractor, computer, etc... is just that... a cheap lawyer, contractor, computer etc...

If you want to blow your mind up check out this cost estimation model for the software industry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COCOMO
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Old 04-05-2017, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by trinton View Post
Very typical response from an self centered, ignorant, ALWAYS and NEVER person.
I think you are taking your reading and research a little far to suggest BF is any of this.

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Be very cautious of people who use NEVER and ALWAYS to negatively describe other people.
A single occurrence on an anonymous message forum does not equate to a pattern of behavior you can suggest what you are suggesting.

I hope all is ok with you.

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Originally Posted by trinton View Post
Not sure why this was removed from my initial post ? If you're going to direct something negative at others be prepared for a response. We're all entitled to our opinions.
BF is not anything you have described nor has this esteemed poster ever been accused of such to the best of my knowledge.

Good Luck!
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