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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2017, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
How can they change jurisdiction of the move hasn't happened yet? No judge will work off what ifs. Even so, Dad is trying to do all this for financial reasons, eliminate CS, cut S7 costs and on top of it is seeking SS... I don't see how any of that is about fostering a healthy relationship with his daughter.

I do think of both bio parents relocated he could probably apply to the court down there to change jurisdictions but he would have to wait until both moves happen.

You are all about "hearing the other side" yet I don't think anyone has heard your other side trinton... how do we know what you are saying about your case is true? Can you provide advice without projecting that Mom is doing this to spite Dad?


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I do agree that they can't change jurisdiction until an order for a move exists. They could simply order the move, and as part of that order, order that the jurisdiction to be changed to the USA. I have seen that happen in mobility cases.

Here is how a good lawyer would handle it. You get an interim order to move to the states, and as part of that order, you transfer the jurisdiction to the child's new natural habitant, i.e., USA (where she will be in school full time, etc), and conduct the trial in the new jurisdiction. The father isn't opposing the move so it makes complete sense, and there is many case law to support this.

Here we go again with the dad is only doing this for money. Dad asks for money and mom decides she's going to move down to the states with her new husband in return. Your statement is no different than me saying that Mom is just doing this to cut the dad out. Dad is a smartass and is not going to let that happen and will be moving down with his daughter. He loves his daughter so much that he will move to a different country just to be with her. He is most certainly not frustrating the mother's move to the states - he is supporting it.

I'm not all about hearing the other side. But what the other person will say is something that you should always consider in a family court proceedings. You don't want to say things that can easily be rebutted by the other side.

You would want to hear my other side as much as I would love to hear your other side. You will never know if I'm telling the truth and I will never know i if you are telling the truth either. It all comes down to how believable your statement of the events are, as well as what your true motivations are. What motivates you to do this? I either believe you or I call BS.

I am free to share my personal opinion. It is never intended to offend anyone. I am free to express my opinion of people, people's actions and different situations. You are free to judge. That is your right. But I also have that same right.


My advice to mom is to show that you still support the father being an important person in your daughter's life, and make it all about the child and not so much that CS shouldn't be lowered because you got a raise or that there shouldn't be any change in spousal support. There has been a very clear material change in circumstance regarding child support that needs to be addressed. Your income has changed. It has increased by a significant amount.



Anyway,

Last edited by trinton; 01-13-2017 at 02:37 PM.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2017, 02:54 PM
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I think you miss the very first post where Mom states she is paying CS and has been in an offset arrangement. Dad makes six figures and is now requesting SS... tell me again how this is not about money to Dad?


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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2017, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
I think you miss the very first post where Mom states she is paying CS and has been in an offset arrangement. Dad makes six figures and is now requesting SS... tell me again how this is not about money to Dad?
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You left out the the point that the mom is now making more money and makes considerably more money than the 6 figures that the father makes. So there is definitely money involved, as is with 99.9% of all divorce/custody cases in Canada. But you also left out the point that in response to the father's reasonable requests to adjust child support, and seek spousal support, following the material change in circumstances of the parties income, the mother all oh of a sudden wants to move to the states to the state where the child will be studying.

She speculates that the father is blocking the move, but the father is clearly facilitating the move. She further speculates that the father is talking to the child to live with him, meanwhile the mother and step-father are both moving with the child to the states. Who'se there to say that the mother and step-father aren't or haven't talked the child to live with them in the states? They have obviously talked about it if they are all moving there.

She is hoping to obtain primary residency there, which would likely eliminate the offset in child support. You could tell me how this is not about money to mom and we can take it from there.

Last edited by trinton; 01-13-2017 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 01-13-2017, 03:45 PM
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So it's okay for dad to move to the states to be closer to the daughter because he wants to continue to have a meaningful relationship with his daughter but the mother is only doing it to get CS?

The way I read it was the dad started the application for increased CS (which mom was fine with) but then wanted SS to boot. Which is silly considering his own salary. Anyone who makes six figures doesn't need SS, pure greed.

Mom didn't mention receiving CS from Dad, she just said she was looking to move. Honestly mom could have upped and moved with the daughter and not told dad. The daughter is 17 and can choose to live wherever she wants. No court will order the daughter to move back to Canada and live with Dad.

But I get it... you're on the all moms are evil train and dads are constantly screwed over


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Old 01-13-2017, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
So it's okay for dad to move to the states to be closer to the daughter because he wants to continue to have a meaningful relationship with his daughter but the mother is only doing it to get CS?
That is not what I said. Quite to the contrary, you said the complete opposite just minutes ago.Please see below:
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
tell me again how this is not about money to Dad?
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
The way I read it was the dad started the application for increased CS (which mom was fine with) but then wanted SS to boot. Which is silly considering his own salary. Anyone who makes six figures doesn't need SS, pure greed.
I completely agree with you that no one that makes that much money should ask for spousal support, or child support. But they are your rights and you are entitled to them. The idea of spousal support is to level out the incomes. If they were married and living together, they would both be benefiting from her increased income.

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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
Mom didn't mention receiving CS from Dad, she just said she was looking to move.
She’s very cleary stated they are in an offset agreement, which means they both have to pay each other. She has further stated that
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Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
He's simply trying to welch out of full table CS and his tuition contribution because he HATES that my daughter is choosing to live with us during her university years.
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
Honestly mom could have upped and moved with the daughter and not told dad. The daughter is 17 and can choose to live wherever she wants. No court will order the daughter to move back to Canada and live with Dad.
Why would you even suggest that? Why would such a gross thought like that even run through your mind? If mom did that then I would be right about her motivations. Her true motivation would be crystal clear. The mother doesn't like the child's biological dad, the mother likes the child's step-dad, and wan'ts the child to live with them - and not the child's biological dad.She's already had a discussion about her not having to see dad.
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Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
she's requested that we stop the current week on/week off schedule with her dad, which I told her is her decision. She's 17 and no longer has to spend equal time with her dad if he's going to continue to engage in this type of behavior.
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
But I get it... you're on the all moms are evil train and dads are constantly screwed over
Never did I once say all moms are evil and dads are constantly screwed over. You heard that but it was never said. You are free to read through my previous posts if you wish. You have that right.

Last edited by trinton; 01-13-2017 at 04:17 PM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2017, 04:29 PM
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Do you think a court is going to order a 17 year old to live with one parent or the other? It's her choice who she lives with at her age and there is zero anyone can do about it. If she decides to live with mom full time then yes dad is on the hook for CS. Just like if she decided to live with Dad full time mom would be on the hook. We are not talking about young kids here. This is a young adult who has all the control over her own life and where she wants to go.




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Old 01-13-2017, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
Do you think a court is going to order a 17 year old to live with one parent or the other? It's her choice who she lives with at her age and there is zero anyone can do about it. If she decides to live with mom full time then yes dad is on the hook for CS. Just like if she decided to live with Dad full time mom would be on the hook. We are not talking about young kids here. This is a young adult who has all the control over her own life and where she wants to go.

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She's certainly not an adult until she turns 18. She's still a teenager with an open mind. To answer your question, yes, the court can order which parent she will live with, she is considered child of the marriage and the courts will need to establish who she lives with so they can figure out child support issues. The courts however won't order her to be with a parent she doesn't want to live with, unless there is evidence that it is in her best interests to do so. But it will encourage contact between them. It is socially acceptable for children to main contact with their parents. Did you know that we now have laws that allows parents to seek support from children (when they are working adults) ?

It's hard to say there is no influence from either side, or the step-dad for that matter.

It's just strange to me that the mom all oh of a sudden, after an increase income and a court proceeding against her for the adjustment of child support, wants to move to the states with the child. She likely had it all planned out, and was aware of the promotion that was headed her way.

To stay focused, dad is also moving to the states to maintain his relationship with his child and is asking a change in jurisdiction. Do you honestly think that the courts is going to order that the family comply with Canadian laws when they are all living in another country?

Last edited by trinton; 01-13-2017 at 05:04 PM.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2017, 06:46 PM
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If the plan is to move to the states for her to go to university there, the question becomes why isn't she just moving there by herself? If mom is moving there with the child (and the step dad) and dad (Real dad) is also moving there, then the family unit is clearly living under a different jurisdiction. Why should they have to come to Canada whenever they have to deal with a situation that comes up? What they have to fly to Canada to file that emergency motion because that's where the jurisdiction is? Makes absolutely no sense.

PS. that whole all of a sudden the child wants to go to the states, and doesn't want to be involved in dad's life, but is very close to step dad thing isn't quite making sense. Sounds like the step dad is really influencing the child as his own and working very hard to cut the real dad out. You're taking care of the legal aspect. Or trying to anyway.
You're making a lot of wrong assumptions.

First of all, we aren't moving to the same state. He's moving to the state he's always wanted to live in that's closer to his family and I'm moving to a different state that's within walking distance to the school our daughter has chosen. My daughter wants to live at home during school and I think that's a great plan. We had no mobility restrictions and have wanted to buy a bigger home anyway so we told her that we would move close to whatever school she picked...and that would have included if she had chosen to live with her dad.

Her dad's plan was to move close to his family and have our kid go to school at a university 50 minutes away (with no traffic) in a major, dangerous city. She chose not to do that.

Also when we move we won't be in the same jurisdiction...simply in the same country. US courts are very localized and there are different laws from state to state...so there is would be no commonality. And it would be much closer for my ex to come to Canada from his location for court than to the location that we'll be in...about an hour vs a 4.5 hour drive. So that's not a reason either.

The ONLY reason he wants to try to negate our court order is because he wants to avoid CS...that's it. The US law basically doesn't have a provision for support past 18 years of age...even for full-time students. That's what he's after. And it wouldn't happen anyway. The US court wouldn't throw out our existing order to re-litigate the case....its a stupid idea that my ex is fantasizing about because he's trying to punish our kid for choosing not to live with him.

And there won't be any emergency motions. Our daughter turns 18 after we move. There will simply be CS...that's it. And if he doesn't pay it, I'll be the one driving to go to court...not him.

Second, I never said that she doesn't want to be any part of her dad's life. Although if he keeps it up it may come to that. She wants to see her dad, she simply doesn't want to live with him or spend weeks at his house any more. She's 17 and has the right to decide where she wants to be.

And lastly, my husband doesn't has zero reason to try to cut my kid's dad out of her life. He has 3 of his own kids. All he does is provide a contrast in attitude, behavior and parenting. Our daughter is intelligent and perfectly capable of seeing the difference between her dad's abusive behavior and my husband's attentive, caring behavior. If her dad was a capable parent, there would be zero reason for him to be intimidated by my new husband.
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Old 01-13-2017, 06:52 PM
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Is there any way you could stay in Canada and be close enough for kid to live in residence or is it a case of moving removes the "international student" name and reduces costs?
No...we're about 4.5 hours away. I'm currently near Windsor so there's only one University near us...our daughter didn't want to go there. So it was either move further into Canada or to the States. She chose the US university because of the programs they offer and she loved the campus and the atmosphere of the school when we took the tour.

And yes, the residency factor is also another point. My husband owns property in the state so although we have to appeal, there's a strong chance she'll be able to get residency status for half the tuition rate.
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Old 01-13-2017, 07:08 PM
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I would suggest they probably don't run their home around dad, or act as if he were there and it is unlikely that they spend much time discussing him. Chances are they just live their life and have their own relationship outside of hers with her father and the kid just prefers that relationship - as many do when the father goes to great lengths to damage his own relationship with the child.
Thank you Berner, Blink and Arabian.

The last thing I'm trying to do is ruin any relationship our daughter has with her father. He certainly doesn't need my help to do so.

I've gone to great lengths to go with whatever she wants to do even though anyone who's read my posts before knows that I have had extreme problems with what I consider borderline verbal abuse. I'm pretty fed up with our daughter leaving my house happy and coming back mad or upset. I have literally bit my tongue and changed the subject when she says stuff about her dad. I do not engage but that's not because I don't think her criticisms are perfectly valid and right.

Besides our daughters is a very self-aware 17 year old young woman. She's caring and thoughtful. She would never even consider being mean or dismissive of anyone, especially not her dad. She's reacting to his behavior towards her...and I've tried to warn him and received hate mail back. He's also already ruined one relationship with our other daughter. So if he can't change his behavior, then he'll have to live with the consequences and it will be entirely his own fault.
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