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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2017, 09:49 AM
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Thanks for the suggestion ensorcelled.

I think 2-2-3 would work best because they won't go longer than three days without seeing myself or my ex. I also like that over a two week period, the days remain the consistent.

What alternatives did you consider when you were at this point?
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2017, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoknew View Post
Thanks for the suggestion ensorcelled.

I think 2-2-3 would work best because they won't go longer than three days without seeing myself or my ex. I also like that over a two week period, the days remain the consistent.

What alternatives did you consider when you were at this point?
We just fell into it, to be honest. My child's father has a lot of activities towards the end of the week and my work is always busy on Monday and Tuesdays and I'm there until 8pm somedays. Our child's homework assignments always are due on Fridays and well, he's not the best at getting those done

In our agreement we have a bunch of things that we flout all the time. I remember reading somewhere that if you go to court people are more likely to be 'strict to the letter' of their agreements and that would drive me batty. I was pregnant this summer and not able to take a vacation with our son so I will do so in November and homeschool him for two weeks while we are away. Life (for me) just isn't that structured but I think it's easy for me to say that as I'm a very organised person. My ex needs more structure and boundaries. He changed jobs, for example, and 'forgot' to tell me. When I tried to reach him for something his old admin assistant was like 'Ughh...he doesn't work here anymore!' I had to (gently) remind him of the line and paragraph of our separation agreement which we agreed to disclose those and that we need certain amounts of information in case of emergancy and he was like, 'Oh yea..sorry, slipped my mind'
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2017, 12:59 PM
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There are two kinds of parents:
  • involved parents who put in serious effort to look after their children's welfare
  • uninvolved parents who have other people to look after their children's welfare
There are two kinds of exes
  • reasonable exes who want the break to be clean and fair to everyone
  • unreasonable exes who want to have everything
Obviously it's more of a spectrum than a black/white division, but let's go with extremes to illustrate my point.

Upon a split, they combine in different ways.

Two involved parents who are reasonable exes want 50-50 and will cooperate well to achieve it, without seeing court.

Two uninvolved parents who are reasonable exes will probably also end up with 50-50.

Involved parents who are unreasonable exes want 100 or as close to it as possible. Unless the other parent is a reasonable ex / uninvolved parent, this won't happen.

Two unreasonable/uninvolved people will fight to the bitter end and the children will suffer terribly caught in the middle.

There are more combinations (10 total, says math) but you get the picture.

Clearly, you have an involved/unreasonable ex to deal with.

What is going on in your case is that you were an uninvolved parent when you were the breadwinner with a stay-at-home partner. Now that you no longer have the stay-at-home partner, you are trying to switch to being an involved parent, and your ex is having none of it. Possibly because she's built her whole identity around being a stay-at-home parent, possibly because she's lazy and doesn't want to switch to being a breadwinner as well, possibly because she's unconvinced of your sincerity, who knows?

If you can guess her reasons, that may help with your negotiations though.

If she doubts your sincerity about suddenly becoming an involved parent, pointing out that you have support people to help you out will not be very useful. She'll just feel you want to take the children away from her to give to other people.

If she's built her whole identity around being a stay-at-home parent, that's her own psychological problem to deal with, and shouldn't affect your desire to spend time with your own children. The graduated schedule would be to help HER adjust, not the children, so you need to find things to promote that she could do with her time. You could suggest she take a retraining course to help her return to the workforce and that your parenting time would be the days she has classes.

The important point here is that things change upon a relationship breakdown. The children's time must be divided, as the parents are no longer experienced together. A stay-at-home parent must return to the workforce and young children will likely need daycare. It's unreasonable for your ex to expect her life to remain the same except with no longer seeing you evenings and weekends.

I'm wondering, however, if you may keep in mind something like 50-50 time for overnights, so CS is offset, but she gets two years of SS and looks after the children during the daytime when you are working. So you would bring the child who is not in school to her as though she was a daycare. Then, when both children are in school, you have perfectly normal 50-50, SS ends, and she presumably finds employment. It approximates the plan you both had, had the relationship not ended.

It's not equal, it's not fair, and it's not great, but the total cost might be less than going to court, which could take a couple of years until both kids are in school anyways.

See if you can get her to cave in first, but keep this option in mind as a last resort.

Another thing to keep in mind - whoever lives near the school has a HUGE advantage, even bigger in your case since you work from home. The kids could come to your house after school, you would likely be the one to go get them if they got sick, the friends they make will likely live in your neighbourhood, etc. Moving near the school NOW will be a tremendous help to your case. Plan long-term too; pick a house between the current school and the future high school.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2017, 01:05 PM
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Absolutely insist on 50/50. My kids were not as young as yours when I separated, but it was not 50/50 at first. Even though the SA stated the intention was to get to 50/50, when that time came it was like pulling teeth. Save yourself the struggle and get 50/50 from the start. And it is definitely healthier for the kids that way.

2-2-3 certainly works for the kids, but I have also seen kids that resulted from week-on/week-off, and they are also very well adjusted, socially active, doing well in school, etc.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2017, 09:39 PM
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The proposal we sent yesterday was rejected. Down but not going to stop fighting.

2 children, 4 and 2

CURRENT:
M+W - 4 to7 PM
SATS - 9 to 7 PM

PROPOSED FOR NEXT FOUR WEEKS
M+W - 12 to7 PM
SAT 9 AM to SUN 9 AM

PROPOSED FOR FOUR WEEKS AFTERWARDS
M+W - 12 to 7 PM
SAT 9 AM to SUN 7 PM

When we settled our last proposal which was informal but between our lawyers, we stated that this it would only last four weeks (we are entering week four on Saturday), we said we will be serving court materials for regular non-emergency proceedings within the next few days.

We served the application on September 1.

If STBX agreed to med/arb, we would stop the process.

If we could't agree on a parenting plan beyond these four weeks and until the case conference, we would ask STBX to attend before a DRO.

It was also added...

For clarity, the interim w/out prejudice Agreement to be signed would read that in the event the parties do not come to agreement as to the parenting time from the four week mark until the case conference, they will either attend the DRO (available every Wed to assist while waiting) or serve the urgent motion. (No acquiescence.)

But here's the thing, now that I re-read the emails being sent back and forth, there was no agreement on their end to us.

Was there supposed to be an agreement signed or it is implied based on agreement to the informal proposal.

What next?

Also, I communicated with my lawyer today about this and said in court, talk tomorrow. I thought it would be a good time to ask for future court dates she'll be in on so I could attend. I was told she cannot do this to her clients but can send me judgements if I'd like.

I am not questioning ability, I wanted to get a feel for the process because I feel that's where this is headed.

Thoughts on that?

Last edited by Whoknew; 09-06-2017 at 09:40 PM. Reason: typo
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2017, 07:07 AM
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DRO cant order anything. If your ex refuses to budge its a waste of time to attend a DRC. Been there done that.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2017, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
DRO cant order anything. If your ex refuses to budge its a waste of time to attend a DRC. Been there done that.
Do you have any recommendations?

Mediation be a big waste as well.

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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2017, 08:11 AM
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Get to the case conference. You need a judge.

If a party is unwilling to negotiate or even mediate then sitting in front of someone with no teeth is a waste of time and money. File your motion and get it heard by a judge.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2017, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
Get to the case conference. You need a judge.

If a party is unwilling to negotiate or even mediate then sitting in front of someone with no teeth is a waste of time and money. File your motion and get it heard by a judge.
The application was just filed, wouldn't the CC be at least 4-5 weeks away?

I spoke with my lawyer just now about skipping DRO and filing a temporary order regarding parenting in the meantime.

Does that sound wise?

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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2017, 11:35 AM
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Filing FOR a temporary order? Probably wise. You need a decision now rather than waiting and letting her get status quo.
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