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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2017, 01:18 AM
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It's bothersome that time spent is the measure of caregiving as opposed to things like effort when present.

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Old 09-03-2017, 06:10 PM
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Would like opinions on what we have been doing and my plan for gradual transition to 2-2-3:

Reminder: We have one child (4, starting JK on Tuesday) and one child (2)

Beginning June 23, 2017
Tuesday and Thursday – 4pm until 8pm
Saturdays – 9am until 2pm

Beginning August 1, 2017
Tuesdays and Thursdays switched to Monday and Wednesdays to accommodate my Father's Parenting Class

Beginning August 19, 2017
Mondays and Wednesdays from 4pm to 7pm (7:30pm until start of school)
Saturdays from 9am to 7:30pm

NEXT: September 16, 2017
Mondays and Wednesdays from 12pm to 7pm
Saturdays from 9am to Sunday 7pm

NEXT: October 14, 2017
Mondays and Wednesdays from 12pm to 7pm
Fridays from after school to Sunday at 7pm

NEXT: November 11, 2017
Mondays and Wednesdays from 12pm to 7pm
Fridays from after school to Monday 9am

NEXT: December 9, 2017 – Full implementation of 2-2-3 until second child begins school in 2019 at which time a switch to 2-2-5-5 happens

Once our youngest turns six, I would like for week about.


My reasoning:

All necessary adjustments to my work schedule will be made to accommodate this. I would work from home on my parenting days. STBX to have first right of refusal of caregiving if my absence from home would be more than three hours on my parenting days

My sister who has a flexible work schedule would accommodate any arrangement under three hours even in short notice. My sister-in-law who is a stay at home mom would be a second alternative if sister is not available.

I would make all the pick-ups and drop offs.

Pickup of both kids before school would alleviate STBX of having to get both ready while also having to bring child to school. In this scenario, her focus would be on getting them ready.

Dropping child off at school and then bringing other to STBX's home would allow for a less rushed morning for them, including STBX. I am always up early anyway.

It is my intention to move within school zone to reduce driving time for our children

Our children would not be without either of us for more than three days.

Weekends with them would allow for better bonding and plannable experiences.

Same weekday parenting days make the routine easier to remember and follow.

Same weekday parenting days make for better planning of extra-curricular activities which I plan on having both be enrolled into whatever suits their interests.

Daily and nightly routines to be followed identically and as per their history futher promiting stability, constancy and routine.

Looking forward to hearing opinions. I am working on holiday schedule now, currently reading through some cases on canlii for suggestions.

Thanks again to you all!
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Old 09-03-2017, 06:33 PM
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am I reading it right that in October you want the kids for each weekend?
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Old 09-03-2017, 08:06 PM
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Yes and that sounds excessive.

The only reason I suggested it is because our first round of negotiations leading up to August 19 agreement included Saturday overnights to begin ON September 16.

I figured weekends weren't important to her. But I take it you're thinking that sounds unreasonable. And I agree

What if it were EOW, would it be an overnight on off weeks during the week? Would one of the nights still be in effect for three three hours?

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Old 09-03-2017, 08:49 PM
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- Reconsider both picking up and dropping off. I believe the person who has the access time picks up the kids.
- perhaps be quite specific in exactly what it is that you have done with your work to make your plan feasible. Is your plan realistic with your work responsibilities? One might ask why you weren't able/willing to do this beforehand (expect to hear from your ex about this)?
- plans to 'someday' move to children's school area are vague unless you have a down payment/proof of a new place....you could change your mind.

LF32 has some good advice (as do others of course).

Your plan included your ex staying home with children until they were both in school. What plans were discussed about your ex returning to work? How easy is this going to be? Does she need upgrading? With an eye to your plan will this get your ex back into the workforce earlier? How does she feel about this?
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Old 09-03-2017, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Is your plan realistic with your work responsibilities?
I have you ever actually tried to parent a 2 and 4 year old while you were working? I took a few courses on line when my children were little. It is impossible. If you are getting work done, then that means you are not actually parenting your children, they are amusing themselves in play, and at 2 and 4 expect that to last about 10 minutes before you are interrupted. Or they are stuck in front of a screen. If you are parenting your children, you aren't actually getting any work done. It is one thing to need to do this on a rare occasion, like your child is sick at home, or if your kids are considerably older, but to expect this to be successful with little kids on a routine twice/week basis, sound like wishful thinking or you are planning to use a screen as a babysitter. I am not trying to be harsh, but realistically this is unlikely to be successful.

I too, think it is unrealistic to think that your STBX would agree to never have a weekend with the children from October to December. That is a long time to go without 1 weekend. What if STBX want to visit family or go to an all day event? You cant do that when child is in school. Although you could argue, it is just preschool anyways, so could take child out for 1-2 days isnt that big of deal.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2017, 11:46 PM
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Thank you Arabian, great points and questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
- Reconsider both picking up and dropping off. I believe the person who has the access time picks up the kids.
I wanted to suggest this for the purpose of least path of resistance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
- perhaps be quite specific in exactly what it is that you have done with your work to make your plan feasible. Is your plan realistic with your work responsibilities? One might ask why you weren't able/willing to do this beforehand (expect to hear from your ex about this)?
It's a family business, close family business who will support me in achieving this. We are also courting a new hire to assist in lightening my load. I wasn't doing this before because that was our life. But this is not the case anymore. With change in one area brings change in others.

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Originally Posted by arabian View Post
- plans to 'someday' move to children's school area are vague unless you have a down payment/proof of a new place....you could change your mind.
Can I debate that the sale of the matrimonial home would allow that happen or it still doesn't hold weight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
LF32 has some good advice (as do others of course).
He does! I enjoy his posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
Your plan included your ex staying home with children until they were both in school. What plans were discussed about your ex returning to work? How easy is this going to be? Does she need upgrading? With an eye to your plan will this get your ex back into the workforce earlier? How does she feel about this?
We discussed this before, during and after marriage. This shouldn't be hard because she was employed in a family business as well. Minor upgrading would be needed in terms of learning the new products. It would definitely get her back into work earlier. She's in her early 30's and able and would think, reasonably, there's reason she could and should.
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Old 09-04-2017, 12:09 AM
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Denbigh, I don't think you're being harsh at all. Everything being replied are contributing to the thinking process so thank you.

If you feel what I'm replying is a far stretch and needs more thought, please say so. This new to me but with that being said, our kids are worth the sacrifice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denbigh View Post
u ever actually tried to parent a 2 and 4 year old while you were working? I took a few courses on line when my children were little. It is impossible. If you are getting work done, then that means you are not actually parenting your children, they are amusing themselves in play, and at 2 and 4 expect that to last about 10 minutes before you are interrupted. Or they are stuck in front of a screen. If you are parenting your children, you aren't actually getting any work done. It is one thing to need to do this on a rare occasion, like your child is sick at home, or if your kids are considerably older, but to expect this to be successful with little kids on a routine twice/week basis, sound like wishful thinking or you are planning to use a screen as a babysitter. I am not trying to be harsh, but realistically this is unlikely to be successful.
I have in spurts, not often and not long. Though the majority of my time spent is fielding infrequent texts/calls/emails. Most of what comes up would be solved on the spot or a re-direct to an employee in our office to resolve. As mentioned above, fully supportive family business, currently courting a new hire to assist as well. If I had to setup a meeting, it would not be for the same day and my clients would understand why.

Our oldest is in school, and our youngest naps for 1-1/2 to 2 hours daily. I would make excellent use of that time. Everything that happened from pickup to her nap time would be well taken care when she naps. And then plan to not take on anything further after she wakes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by denbigh View Post
I too, think it is unrealistic to think that your STBX would agree to never have a weekend with the children from October to December. That is a long time to go without 1 weekend. What if STBX want to visit family or go to an all day event? You cant do that when child is in school. Although you could argue, it is just preschool anyways, so could take child out for 1-2 days isnt that big of deal.
I agree and will be changing that too, going to canlii now to read up on solutions.
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Old 09-04-2017, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Currently see our kids M + W fron 4-7 and Sat from 9-7. This is very recent. Previously, Sats were from 9-2.
So you pretty much always had Saturdays? Sounds like the children have become accustomed to that routine, and she seems to not mind having her Saturday's off. She has already denied overnight access on Saturdays, which in my opinion doesn't look good on her.

Perhaps full weekends isn't the best route. I'm not sure you'll get it unless a significant material change has taken place, like denial of access occurred and it was deemed temporary make up time.

Quote:
STBX is trying to keep as much time as possible, limiting my access. Main reason why I served which from what I understand is atypical.
Atypical? Not in the slightest. In fact this is what happens in most separations involving children now. The system (for lack of a better word) positively reinforces parents to fight over who gets the kids. It's a booming business right now, with people earning piles of cash in every dark corner.

Quote:
I'm repeatedly trying to reconcile as well for our relationship was a lost connection that I thought could be saved.
Some hard love for you pal, from what you've written, it seems pretty over. She wont agree in mediation and flat out refuses arbitration, so she wants war. What I learned about myself personally is how much strength a parent can gain when they're fighting to be a part of their kids life. There's nothing else in this world more important in my opinion. No reconciliation ... it's time to prepare for court.

Quote:
My question is around parenting plans. She has no desire to discuss anything near 50/50 and this is wholeheartedly what I feel would be best.
Of course she doesn't. She has no confidence in you. You leave the toilet seat up, cant feed kids, burp too loud .. you'll hear it all .. but she chose you as a mate, trusted you to bare your children and you were more present than many fathers out there are. Plus, she's not qualified to assess your parenting skills, especially with he emotions running rampant in a fresh separation. If you've been a good father, go in there and show how you were and present an iron clad parenting plan illustrating how it would be in the best interests of the kids.

Ask for Tuesdays and Wednesdays (both overnights) and one week take Friday Saturday Sunday and the next she take Friday Saturday Sunday.

Quote:
I proposed additional parenting time to which she agreed verbally but wrote her an email to approve to send to my lawyer. She kept changing it, decreasing the times. After multiple times, I resorted to having my lawyer negotiate with hers because I felt it wasn't progressing.
This is good. It shows you are not okay with the situation. No acquiescence here.

You might want to have a peek at the CLRA:
Quote:
Entitlement to custody
20 (1) Except as otherwise provided in this Part, a child’s parents are equally entitled to custody of the child. 2016, c. 23, s. 2 (1).

Rights and responsibilities
(2) A person entitled to custody of a child has the rights and responsibilities of a parent in respect of the person of the child and must exercise those rights and responsibilities in the best interests of the child. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.12, s. 20 (2); 2016, c. 23, s. 2 (2).
If you have documented evidence of her trying to consistently decrease your parenting time than I'd say your case is sounding better.

Has there ever been any straight up denials? If so, look at The maximum contact principle and Rule 20(4)
Quote:
Where parents separate
(4) Where the parents of a child live separate and apart and the child lives with one of them with the consent, implied consent or acquiescence of the other of them, the right of the other to exercise the entitlement of custody and the incidents of custody, but not the entitlement to access, is suspended until a separation agreement or order otherwise provides. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.12, s. 20 (4); 2016, c. 23, s. 2 (3).https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90c12
Judges don't take this lightly. I know she's already denied you overnight access, were there any other denials?

Quote:
She can't be without the kids for too long
Were there any post pardem symptoms by chance? Sounds like unhealthy attachment stuff, my ex went through the same thing.

Quote:
My work schedule that will result in being inconsistent for the kids. I am working on changing my role/responsibilities
You said you're home most days? Let me tell you that that's WAY more than probably 85% of dads. Nothing wrong with support systems when you get a little busy. Having a parent at home with support is better than having no parent at home with support.

Quote:
Would two months be ok for a graduated transition to 50/50?
That isn't unreasonable. Perhaps one month or sooner. Separation is fresh, the sooner the better before she achieves status quo.

Quote:
The Applicant Father recognizes that the Respondent Mother was the primary caregiver during marriage, and knows that the bond between her and the children is very strong. However, he is a very competent, caring, and active parent who very much believes that the children will benefit from having equal parenting time with him and that it is in their best interests to spend equal time with each of their loving parents.
Luckily the kids are very young, and there are material changes occurring in the near future, such as school, preteen years, etc. Schedules, routines, transitions will all be changing drastically, so why not include dad more and head to the court room stacked with how equal parenting will benefit the kids. By the way, your kids deserve to have both loving parents in their life as equally as possible. That's the bottom line.

Quote:
I would make all the pick-ups and drop offs.
Sweet deal for her but you don't have to. Equal parenting, equal driving. My ex told me that I was a visitor .. and that visitor's do all the driving. The judge disagreed. But my recommendation is to suck that up until you have 50/50.

Quote:
It is my intention to move within school zone to reduce driving time for our children
I love when I hear stuff like this, and trust me, so do judges.

Quote:
Our children would not be without either of us for more than three days.

Weekends with them would allow for better bonding and plannable experiences.

Same weekday parenting days make the routine easier to remember and follow.
Fantastic!!!!

Quote:
I have you ever actually tried to parent a 2 and 4 year old while you were working?
Denbeigh, he won't be. We all have support systems as most parents work a 9-5 these days. It's the best of both world's as he's at home, with support. He can take breaks and see them, which many of us can not. Support systems are very important to have and are highly regarded by judges.
Also, he's said that he is changing his roles and responsibilities to be able to spend even more time during the days. Amazing.

Quote:
With change in one area brings change in others.
You're very right. It's your time to shine and rearrange your life to accommodate your kids, and show proof to the judge that you did, and how it will benefit them.

Also, material changes will be occurring in the future as she will be expected to obtain employment, altering the routine with her and the kids. Is she Legal Aiding your a$$?

Quote:
I have in spurts, not often and not long. Though the majority of my time spent is fielding infrequent texts/calls/emails. Most of what comes up would be solved on the spot or a re-direct to an employee in our office to resolve.
WAIT!! So you're not locked behind an office door all day in your home only seeing your kids once or twice? You have spurts all day to see them? In my opinion this is still better than going to a 9-5 outside. The kids will have a good sense of security that you're always around and close. Plus you're changing your roles, etc .. you're on the right path.

Quote:
Our oldest is in school, and our youngest naps for 1-1/2 to 2 hours daily. I would make excellent use of that time. Everything that happened from pickup to her nap time would be well taken care when she naps. And then plan to not take on anything further after she wakes.
Another great detail. Based on your posts and composure I bet your materials look great.

Last edited by LovingFather32; 09-04-2017 at 12:44 AM.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2017, 01:50 AM
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LF32, reading this had fired me up and I don't think I have ever felt so positive since DOS. Much thanks.

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Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
So you pretty much always had Saturdays? Sounds like the children have become accustomed to that routine, and she seems to not mind having her Saturday's off. She has already denied overnight access on Saturdays, which in my opinion doesn't look good on her.

Perhaps full weekends isn't the best route. I'm not sure you'll get it unless a significant material change has taken place, like denial of access occurred and it was deemed temporary make up time.
I don't understand why full weekends wouldn't be the best route. Do mean in the near future or looking forward.

Always had Sats yes. And more and more positive each time. It's not rushed anymore like previous and a different level of planning and activities that just wweren't possible earlier. I love it.

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Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Atypical? Not in the slightest.
What I meant to add was the little time between DOS and application being served. Nine weeks. Still typical? I'm not trying to win an award here lol

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Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
No reconciliation ... it's time to prepare for court.
I've accepted it's over this past week and not just because we served. I have been preparing for court since day one. I knew custody and access would be a long road. I swear, you fired me up to extreme temperatures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
...Plus, she's not qualified to assess your parenting skills, especially with he emotions running rampant in a fresh separation. If you've been a good father, go in there and show how you were and present an iron clad parenting plan illustrating how it would be in the best interests of the kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Ask for Tuesdays and Wednesdays (both overnights) and one week take Friday Saturday Sunday and the next she take Friday Saturday Sunday.
Are you suggesting this as final plan? I like the sounds of that. Though that Monday seems like a straggler. And I think it would be nice to do a Monday dropoff. What are the pros and cons of this?

I have documented DURING MARRIAGE duties which were limited but always involved when I could be. Documenting POST MARRIAGE diary down the the minute. And stating POST MARRIAGE intents. I also have a POST MARRIAGE parenting preparation list like books I've read, professionals I am consulting with and parenting classes I am signed up (first day in November, geeze they must be busy) for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
...consistently decrease your parenting time...

Has there ever been any straight up denials? If so, look at The maximum contact principle and Rule 20(4)

Judges don't take this lightly. I know she's already denied you overnight access, were there any other denials?
Considering this is fairly fresh, I wouldn't say consistent but we're only nine weeks in. Documented at least 4 times. Once cancelled a scheduled day that was arranged between our lawyers. Lastly, denied me coming over night of first day of school so I could talk to our child in person about his day. Was only asking for a few minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Were there any post pardem symptoms by chance? Sounds like unhealthy attachment stuff, my ex went through the same thing.
Not clinically diagnosed but she did say to me when our second was born that she doesn't love her as much as our first. No evidence so no weight. I feel there is anxiety on her part to this day regarding them not being in her care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
You said you're home most days?
I could and would be, no problems with sacrifice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
That isn't unreasonable. Perhaps one month or sooner. Separation is fresh, the sooner the better before she achieves status quo.
Our agreements have changed three times since our DOS... The latest one by only a half hour so not sure what constitutes change in status quo. Regardless, that is why my proposals only last one month before changing. Enough to transition. Not enough to achieve SQ. They've shown they can and are adapting quickly. The major sticking points she fought for in keeping it reduced are documented on my end as not being an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
why not include dad more and head to the court room stacked with how equal parenting will benefit the kids. By the way, your kids deserve to have both loving parents in their life as equally as possible. That's the bottom line.
Amen to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Sweet deal for her but you don't have to. Equal parenting, equal driving.
Do you think offering shows more commitment and path to least resistance at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
...time to shine and rearrange your life to accommodate your kids, and show proof to the judge that you did, and how it will benefit them.
Aside from a diary of everything we do together and photos of certain events, any other advice on proof bulding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Is she Legal Aiding your a$$?
No. Not yet anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
IWAIT!! So you're not locked behind an office door all day in your home only seeing your kids once or twice?
This got me thinking more... about how I should be taking two afternoons off per week that will further prove the validity of my proposal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Another great detail. Based on your posts and composure I bet your materials look great.
My lawyer mentioned my composure as well. Except she got paid for it. But thank for the reply anyway

I've read your posts (not all but working through them) and outcome, 2+ years and I can further see why you know the fight is worth it. I was referencing your holiday/events schedule as most practical. So simple too. I hope (but know) things are going well!
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