Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce & Family Law

Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2014, 07:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,004
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default Holiday schedule

Im looking for some thoughts and input. Partner and I have been discussing the holidays and schedules and his holiday time with his kids and hes trying to figure out how to approach this.

Their agreement states monthly access "agreed upon by all parties" i.e. the kids too. Holidays are separate and the agreement states "overrides the regular schedule". The only place it states agreed to by all is regular monthly parenting time. It also states if other opportunities arise...neither shall insist the arrangements set out be adhered to. Its his year to have the kids Dec 23-36. Two years ago he agreed to switch his time because the kids didnt want to miss out on family traditions etc. Last year he found out they didnt do their holiday tradition until the 26th. His oldest is 19 and doesnt have to do anything undesired. His 14 yo is still subject to it. Last year they put up a fight about visiting at all. Hes already sent a request and a second request with via rail seat sale info. The ex bitches about the 14 yo traveling alone and the 19yo told him that the 14 yo doesnt want to travel alone as its "emotionally draining". He gets nothing when he asks the 14 yo himself. And mom has NEVER "made up" time denied as she says it was the kids' decision not hers. Plus, his ex in laws make plans for the whole family for holidays and his ex doesnt consult him on schedules (christmas and summer vaca in particular).

So, how would you handle this? Email to mom reminding of the agreement terms? Continue to wait for the kids? Email all of them asking? He will more than likely be working the 27th to jan 2 which means 24-26 would be ideal quality time with his kids. Thoughts welcome!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2014, 07:34 PM
mcdreamy's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,414
mcdreamy is on a distinguished road
Default

I'd book an all-inclusive for 4, from Dec. 18-26. They'd be there like a fat boy on a smartie.

Sometimes, I think your partner should not worry so much about out-smarting his ex, and concentrate more on figuring out how to work with the underdeveloped, often times drama filled, boy searching and completely social approval-neediness brains of two teenage girls.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2014, 07:38 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 381
Dadx5 is on a distinguished road
Default

If the 14 year old is saying he does want to come but is upset about traveling alone is there any possibility of dad going and picking him up? I know it might be a bit of a hassle but it could show the child that dad really cares about his concerns and wants to make sure that they see each other?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2014, 12:25 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,004
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

Mcdreamy he offered one direction tickets. It was still a no. A very hesitant one but still no. "Too dangerous". (Eyeroll)

Dadx5 they live four+ hours away.

Our discussion centered on his need for control and understanding he cant control the situation anymore. We'll have a nice holiday regardless of what his kids decide.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2014, 02:29 PM
Rioe's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,245
Rioe will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadx5 View Post
If the 14 year old is saying he does want to come but is upset about traveling alone is there any possibility of dad going and picking him up? I know it might be a bit of a hassle but it could show the child that dad really cares about his concerns and wants to make sure that they see each other?
This 14 year old girl (I think?) is frightened of being on the train for four hours by herself. She's at the age where she's getting a LOT of sexual pressure and lectures about being cautious of strangers, etc. She's probably got the mom spearheading this caution of the train too. She's old enough to do it, yes, but young enough to be scared and old enough not to want to tell people she's scared. Being scared for four hours IS emotionally draining.

I don't understand why the father isn't going to get her and bring her to his place. He doesn't have to drive, he could take the train himself and then accompany her back on the train, teach her how it works, get her comfortable with it, and have a lovely four hours each way of alone father-daughter time, etc. After a few trips, maybe she'll have built up the confidence to do it herself for future visits.

Him not doing this is sending a message to the daughter that she's not worth the trouble. He may not mean it that way, but she'll perceive it that way.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2014, 03:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,004
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

It doesnt matter what he does, mom has interfered so much that shes afraid of everything. Remember these are kids who make comments (repeat comments) when he picks them up at their house. "I dont think its safe to go here or there" etc. Even when a family member comes down to visit and brings her its a fight. We tried it in the spring and it was PERFECT except she had an anxiety attack the night before with mom shouting in the background "not my fault, not withholding access". That would upset any kid knowing mom and dad were not happy (dad told her she could do whatever she wanted he didnt want her sick or upset and please dont worry about hurting his feelings if she wasnt comfortable. She ended up coming and having a great time.) He has tried so many different things but it changes every time. This week she asked dad if theres still room for her now that we live together. All this stuff about how shes worried that things will be weird or that theres no room or that I may not want her there. I was really upset about that one this morning since we've spent time together doing stuff and shopping movies crafts baking etc. thats why I wondered if its a case of enforcement of the agreement.

His kids travel alone to many different places. They do many activities away from mom with no issues. The moment the situation involves dad, theres an issue.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2014, 09:18 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,004
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default Holiday schedule

New update--ex made travel plans for her and the kids for the dates that are his in the agreement. Didn't discuss with him. Didn't check to see if he would give up the time. Just booked it. How did he find out? Kid called to tell him hes ruined her life. This is unreal.

Clarification! The GRANDPARENTS made the travel plans and they booked it last year changing the days to fall over his time (which has happened every year...always books the dates over the time hes scheduled to have them). Without consultation, without discussion, without his input. And because ex didnt make the reservations, her hands are clean and she "told [kid] she had to spend time with dad over the holidays" but of course because mom signed an agreement to have her be with him this year, that statement was more than likely followed by "we'll see you when you get back". Come on, what can dad offer in return? He was good though and expressed to her that he wants to make traditions with her and spend time with her and be a part of her life but he wont force her to do anything she doesnt want to do she has to decide what role she wants him to play in her life.

This whole thing is bullshit. He keeps getting screwed over when it comes to his kids. Kid told him a bunch of stuff "mom said" that isnt true and also what shes doing to breach several aspects of the agreement. Its just not fair. I feel so bad for him. "These arent my kids. I dont know who they are anymore."

Last edited by rockscan; 11-08-2014 at 10:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2014, 12:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,004
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

I need some info. I agreed to do some research while partner is at a job interview. Hes looking at all options from "lay down and take it like a man" to court. But he wants all the details on what is involved. Ive been looking through canlii and google and these forums.

When he spoke with the 14 yo he was told she would see him any days but the days he is given in the agreement. 24 hours after the call he emailed the ex asking for a response on dates and if she wasnt going to adhere to the agreement, he wanted make up dates. He needs to make his holiday plans and he wanted info. First he got a response from his oldest stating she had seen the email and she didnt like the tone and was pissed at him (the tone argument is bull, the email was emotionless and polite asking for make up time). Then he got the response from the ex where she said she doesnt intend to follow the agreement for two reasons: her family (extended, not her and kids) traditions predate the divorce and they will not be inconvenienced for his feelings and he doesnt adhere to the agreement so she isnt either. Now, she uses that argument a lot for a clause that could never be adhered to because she refuses access. He tried after the divorce to adhere to it but since it involved outside services, no one would work with him without a set schedule. He has told her that but deaf ears and all. His response to this email was to remind her denial of access is punishable and hes waiting on access dates.

(Before you ask, he WILL drive to get kid and bring her home.)

Further details: hes had to seek help from a lawyer twice before to enforce access (once on another holiday) and the threat of contempt made her comply. Her new tack is to involve the kids. The 14 yo has now been privy to divorce info and is slowly being alienated as a result.

My questions:

1. If he incurs extra costs to make up the access time hes entitled to, is she responsible for the cost? In the spring he lost $200 on train tickets when she interfered and kids didnt come. He doesnt want to book travel or other entertainment plans knowing he'll lose money.

2. What is involved with contempt? Costs to do it, what happens at the appearance? How does it end if she agrees to make up time before appearing? Is there a site with step by step instructions and info?

Hes spent the last two days trying to reason out stuff. Heavy action means his kids hate him. No action just keeps allowing her to walk all over him. He also knows that the more he sits back and lets his kids "figure it out" the more likely it is theyll just stop including him in their lives. He was pretty strong in his response telling her shes more than welcome to take him to court if she feels his actions on the SA are so bad. His lawyer has already advised him that he can take action but there will be an emotional cost. His reasons for it are that he doesnt want them to one day tell him he didnt fight for them. And also that hes tired of her manipulating the agreement to suit her needs and involving the kids and getting them upset (which is another clause in the SA she refuses to adhere to). Ive also found cases on canlii where the custodial parent was reprimanded for the alienation and refusal to facilitate access with teens. In one case the judges decision said that age makes no difference, the pattern of behaviour leading up to the age showed an unwillingness to help the relationship.

Any help would be appreciated. Hes not full tilt on legal action, he just wants to weigh all his options especially since the wording in her email would speak to bad faith on the SA.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2014, 01:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,348
Beachnana is on a distinguished road
Default

It has to be very disheartening and frustrating to want a solid relationship with his children and be met with such hostility by his ex and both the children.

But these are not little children and although they are obviously being manipulated by the Mother I would think it's time to communicate with the 2 girls. Something along the lines of " i love you and want you in my life etc etc. I would like to make some arrangments for you to spend time with me and these are the dates I am suggesting and these are the details of the visit. Let me know if you are coming. Make your decision and thats the end of it. If They say no then walk away and tell them when they are ready you will be there for them. It seems he is begging for a relationship amd they are just yanking his chain. I Think at this,point " tough love" is in order. I am here the rest is up to the 2 girls. Forcing them to visit according to an agreement will only end in tears and further fuel the hate Mom has instilled in them. Sad as it may be it might be time to walk away for a while and let them figure out what they want. Tragic as it may be for everyone. An agreement cannot force " love"
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2014, 02:04 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,004
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

We discussed that too. Much of Sunday he spent alone in tears because he didnt want me to see his misery. Over the last year he has tried working with the kids on visits but then theres push back from mom saying as per the agreement he has to work with her. No matter what he does hes doomed to fail. She has to drive them places and she pulls the "well they didnt tell me you were coming so I made other plans" bs. I think this situation may finally show him that he cant keep fighting a losing battle. Reading her arguments against following the agreement and not caring about his feelings angered me more than him. Whenever I see what she thinks or hear what poison has been fed to the kids, it makes me realize why they divorced. Doesnt explain how he made it through 20 years with her. I need to figure out how I help him through this emotionally. We agreed no matter what their decision we would have a good holiday and start our own traditions. Year one is always the hardest right?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Long. Context. Regular versus Holiday Schedule MommyTime Divorce & Family Law 31 10-20-2014 12:09 PM
Holiday Weekend Exchange and fear of abusive language MommyTime Domestic Violence 47 10-15-2014 07:47 PM
Parenting Plan Format........... OntarioDaddyMan Parenting Issues 30 06-09-2014 10:55 AM
Summer Holiday Access Schedule :) momto3 Divorce & Family Law 17 11-27-2012 11:51 AM
Holiday Access vs. "Normal" Access Schedule momto3 Parenting Issues 2 07-18-2011 09:11 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:33 PM.