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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2017, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
I doubt the overpayment is going to matter. He did it willingly without a court order. So there was no agreed upon amount by court order.

That's why people don't pay without a court order...because without a court order you don't owe ANYTHING. That's the material point.

As for the gas card, he's paying the bill...so yes, its a joint card. There's zero reason why he shouldn't be cutting that off. She's not making company-related expenditures...they are personal ones and he's not required to pay that.

Forgive me for saying so but you guys are suckers.
I forgive you lol. I hear what you're saying and I agree that continuing to pay this is not ideal. I can't put too much detail in a public forum as you never know who is reading but the explanations given are valid and realistic. If you and I knew each other and could sit down for a coffee you'd get the whole picture.... The outcome should be good here and he's feeling as though the light at the end of the tunnel is a bit brighter. Regardless, she'll be cut off next week.

Faye
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2017, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
I doubt the overpayment is going to matter. He did it willingly without a court order. So there was no agreed upon amount by court order.

That's why people don't pay without a court order...because without a court order you don't owe ANYTHING. That's the material point.
Respectfully, I'm going to argue this one. There is no doubt the he will owe SS. He does owe something. All that is in dispute is how much and for how long. Not entitlement. Is it ridiculous that the princess is driving back and forth to a cottage she doesn't pay for with gas she doesn't pay for? Absolutely. No one is disputing that, but he will have to pay. His objective is to pay as little as possible going forward.
He has his take home salary and benefits he receives from owning a company that all contribute to his income for SS purposes. That income number until last week was "guessable" but not known exactly.
Had he cut everything off, yes, it may have forced this to move along faster however, we would have ended up here anyway with the income evaluation et all but perhaps with a judge who would have used the exes income numbers as punitive to him being an asshole. Now THAT sets a precident. All I read about are people who cut the ex off and end up paying large later. He didn't HAVE to pay it and he knows it but he did. Hopefully to a favourable end result.

So that leaves us where? The ex has no leg to stand on now. She filed the application with demands for spousal support arrears. There are none. She's yelling that she only gets x dollars per week. We can prove she's gotten more. Her claims are false and unproveable because there are no arrears and she has been more than sufficiently supported. There's more. Claims that he lives a luxury lifestyle while she's needed to borrow money to support herself. There are "toys" that he has ( that are actually in her possession ) Used as evidence to support this but it's all definitively refutable.

Will he recover the overpayment? Maybe in equalization, maybe with a low table spousal award. Maybe he'll get none of it back but the court imputes an income to her. Maybe he gets to use the separation date for property equalization. I don't know but I do know, there is no reason for a judge to slap at him and that might be worth it's weight in gold.

Faye
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2017, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faye View Post
Respectfully, I'm going to argue this one. There is no doubt the he will owe SS. He does owe something. All that is in dispute is how much and for how long. Not entitlement. Is it ridiculous that the princess is driving back and forth to a cottage she doesn't pay for with gas she doesn't pay for? Absolutely. No one is disputing that, but he will have to pay. His objective is to pay as little as possible going forward.
He has his take home salary and benefits he receives from owning a company that all contribute to his income for SS purposes. That income number until last week was "guessable" but not known exactly.
Had he cut everything off, yes, it may have forced this to move along faster however, we would have ended up here anyway with the income evaluation et all but perhaps with a judge who would have used the exes income numbers as punitive to him being an asshole. Now THAT sets a precident. All I read about are people who cut the ex off and end up paying large later. He didn't HAVE to pay it and he knows it but he did. Hopefully to a favourable end result.

So that leaves us where? The ex has no leg to stand on now. She filed the application with demands for spousal support arrears. There are none. She's yelling that she only gets x dollars per week. We can prove she's gotten more. Her claims are false and unproveable because there are no arrears and she has been more than sufficiently supported. There's more. Claims that he lives a luxury lifestyle while she's needed to borrow money to support herself. There are "toys" that he has ( that are actually in her possession ) Used as evidence to support this but it's all definitively refutable.

Will he recover the overpayment? Maybe in equalization, maybe with a low table spousal award. Maybe he'll get none of it back but the court imputes an income to her. Maybe he gets to use the separation date for property equalization. I don't know but I do know, there is no reason for a judge to slap at him and that might be worth it's weight in gold.

Faye
With all due respect, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. It isn't a matter of whether or not she has a legally valid entitlement to SS...its that she hasn't PROVED IT. That burden is hers...not yours. You should not be paying expenses like this without a court order...you are screwing yourselves.

I'm literally laughing at the idea that you think overpayment is going to get paid back somehow. Its not. The way this is going, she's going to do extremely well and this is going to take a very long time. What you're doing is literally providing charity to a loser who is very likely to now argue that since your fiance was stupid enough to do it, that now that's what she's used to.

She's done zero to support herself and he's done zero to suggest that she should have to do so. In fact, quite the opposite.

I don't know how to make this more crystal clear. You do not pay anything without a court order..it counts for nothing. You make her prove entitlement and you make her push the court process quicker to get an order in place. If she wants SS, make her prove it and make her go to court.

One of the biggest advantages that the payor has is that they have income while the other party doesn't...so lengthy litigation generally works in their favor because the other party can't afford it. You guys have blown that advantage too.

What you've done is completely the opposite. You've given her an income for nothing and you've stalled the court process by doing so. Its pure insanity.

The judge isn't going to punish you for not paying her. He's not her daddy...she has a responsibility to get a job and to get to court to get a court order. The judge would simply get that order in place for much less than you're handing out now. She'd be required to provide some level of income for her own care and she'd be imputed a wage for CS purposes to pay you.

There's nothing to penalize him for. All he has to say is that he's been willing to pay support but she's been stalling the agreement and she's done nothing to contribute to her own self-support.

Your lawyers are full of crap. I know soooo many women that have to borrow money because their husband's cut them off. Its perfectly normal and part of the divorce process. That's the exact reason that interim orders exist!

Anyway, it doesn't matter what I say. This leech knows what she's doing and your fiance will continue to live in fear of this useless individual. I'm sorry that you're caught up in this mess.

Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. I have a husband who legitimately and fairly paid a large amount of SS to his ex-wife for about 4 years...but then she tried to sneak in a live-in boyfriend who was also paying all her bills.

So I insisted (and I do mean insisted) that my husband take her to court even though proving a live-in bf isn't always easy. He got a good lawyer and within 3 months after the court action aggressively started, she willingly gave up support....then within 2 months, married the new dude. So he'll never have to pay her a dime every again.

There's nothing wrong with paying SS if she has a legitimate claim to it...but there is something hugely wrong with being a sucker to a leech who doesn't have the pride to at least do something to get off her ass and support herself. You guys are doing the wrong thing...and no matter what I say will continue to do so. This is why there are so many money leeches who get away with this nonsense. It ticks me off.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2017, 02:09 PM
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I agree with Pursuing Happiness for the most part, particularly about proving entitlement. I would add that there are too many lousy lawyers practicing family law out there. Sounds like the lawyers in this case are playing loose and free with their client's trust and money.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2017, 06:21 PM
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By paying her all along, he's just HELPED her prove entitlement to SS.
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