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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2017, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by arabian View Post
That is not what you said/implied in your first post.
I'm pretty sure what I said in my first post is that she's been getting 1,600/month, that her cell phone, insurance, gas ( substantial at 600/month ) are being covered by him. That he pays the mortgages and utilities on both their properties and until recently has accessed their joint account for cash transfers.
His lawyer advised him to not cut her off of the benefits she's been getting but he did limit the gas card to 600 maximum monthly which is her average spending ( it has been more ).
I apologize if the information was misleading in any way...was not my intention. I am trying to give you all as much information as possible while not putting it all out there. This is a public forum that anyone can read...perhaps her as well.

Faye
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2017, 09:13 PM
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Without an interim order no money should have been paid out. Agree with PH. There are basic strategies that your man's lawyer(s) did not seem to employ although you may provide information on your next post. Exchanging budgets early on is another elementary step (you may also reveal this in your next post).

So let me try to elicit additional information from you - does ex have a health problem?
None that I am aware of.

Look, I agree that this probably hasn't been handled optimally but I'm doing all I can to help and seek advice and support. I don't know how it was handled prior to his current lawyer as I tried to limit my involvement. It became apparent that he was struggling, no progress was being made, so I volunteered to help.
I'm not trying to withhold information or looking to have someone drag the info out of me. Just trying to give as much intel as possible without saying " hey, ex wife this is in fact you were talking about ".

Faye
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2017, 09:23 PM
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If she is as devious as you say she is then she could easily be filling up someone else's vehicle, as well as hers, and receiving cash. Same goes for Costco points/gift cards. That's a very old but useful strategy I've heard people resorting to after their monthly "allowance" has been trimmed. The point is, your man has to tighten up his purse strings and learn how to say "no." His ex is likely receiving all sorts of 'tips of the trade' and some of the things I've heard I will not post on here as they are just downright scandalous but lucrative and it sounds like your man is the perfect mark.

There are plenty of good lawyers out there. You could probably help him out by sourcing out some people. Get a grip on finances and help him come to a monthly figure that he can live with FOR HIS LEGAL FEES. Believe it or not, the legal fees are going to be his biggest problem and he probably can use someone to watch over his shoulder. If he needs counselling set that up but don't let him use the lawyer as a counselor or your current lifestyle will take a turn.

Good luck.
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by arabian View Post
Type A, neatfreak who comes home from work (kids in bed) and decides to tidy up does not dispel the fact that he was in a traditional marriage. In fact you can be in a traditional marriage and neither of you do housework. Hiring housekeepers/maid service while golfing or playing tennis. Husband still made/directed/controlled income into the home.
Thanks, this is the kind of thing I'm looking for. As I said, I've never been divorced so have no idea how these things are looked upon by the court.
Housework is irrelevant. Got it. Thank you. Infidelity is irrelevant also. Got that too.
To address your other post, no money should have been paid out and he may have been stupid for allowing it to happen but this is where we are. He's a good guy that isn't out to screw his ex and be a douchebag but that doesn't mean he wants to allow it to continue.
So is what you're all telling me in fact the reality? He's now set a precedent and he's screwed? No recourse?
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Faye View Post
Thanks, this is the kind of thing I'm looking for. As I said, I've never been divorced so have no idea how these things are looked upon by the court.
Housework is irrelevant. Got it. Thank you. Infidelity is irrelevant also. Got that too.
To address your other post, no money should have been paid out and he may have been stupid for allowing it to happen but this is where we are. He's a good guy that isn't out to screw his ex and be a douchebag but that doesn't mean he wants to allow it to continue.
So is what you're all telling me in fact the reality? He's now set a precedent and he's screwed? No recourse?

You have to get a good lawyer. Someone who can represent his interests and who understands business. Most family law lawyers do not have any business experience whatsoever so you will likely have your work cut out for you. My ex had a few lawyers who couldn't even read/understand a basic financial statement. I was fortunate to have a family law lawyer who also has a business degree. Don't fall for the trap of thinking that hiring a "female" will give you any sort of advantage in family court. That sort of thinking might keep your ex out of the courtroom but instead frustrated 3 years from now with nothing happening on his file. Believe it or not there are MANY lawyers out there who simply refuse to go to court. These lawyers instead like to write letters and letters and letters.

So far:

1) family law lawyer who has business degree or background
2) family law lawyer who is prepared to go to court and not just write letters

One of the first things the lawyer should do is ask your man to prepare a personal budget along with the pertinent information from the business. You mentioned your man hired a business evaluator to determine income. This may be good for trial but before you get to that stage you will need simple, easy-to-understand financial summaries of business activity (not a manual). Of course everything should be able to be corroborated. (do you see the reason the family law lawyer has to be able to understand basic business finances?).

Getting the correct lawyer to represent you will make all the difference as you move forward.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2017, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by arabian View Post
If she is as devious as you say she is then she could easily be filling up someone else's vehicle, as well as hers, and receiving cash. Same goes for Costco points/gift cards. That's a very old but useful strategy I've heard people resorting to after their monthly "allowance" has been trimmed. The point is, your man has to tighten up his purse strings and learn how to say "no." His ex is likely receiving all sorts of 'tips of the trade' and some of the things I've heard I will not post on here as they are just downright scandalous but lucrative and it sounds like your man is the perfect mark.

There are plenty of good lawyers out there. You could probably help him out by sourcing out some people. Get a grip on finances and help him come to a monthly figure that he can live with FOR HIS LEGAL FEES. Believe it or not, the legal fees are going to be his biggest problem and he probably can use someone to watch over his shoulder. If he needs counselling set that up but don't let him use the lawyer as a counselor or your current lifestyle will take a turn.

Good luck.
Agree wholeheartedly. She's just an entitled princess that feels as though she deserves everything and then some. We are trying to expidite the process at this point.
Again, perhaps I'm naive but I simply cannot believe that he won't get credit for not being the douche ex who tries to screw his ex wife over. He's been honest and forthcoming, has provided all information required. Perhaps so many men get raked over the coals because they do things like that?? I don't know. I'd honestly like to think that but again, maybe I'm just being naive.
I'll have him bring everything to another attorney for another consultation ( I've reached out to a non family lawyer acquaintance for a recommendation ) and we'll take it from there I guess.
He can afford his legal fees and our lifestyle is very much home and work. It's how we like it. I also make a great living so while we'd prefer to have this settled soon our relationship is solid and we can take the financial hit.

Faye
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2017, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Faye View Post
Thanks, this is the kind of thing I'm looking for. As I said, I've never been divorced so have no idea how these things are looked upon by the court.
Housework is irrelevant. Got it. Thank you. Infidelity is irrelevant also. Got that too.
To address your other post, no money should have been paid out and he may have been stupid for allowing it to happen but this is where we are. He's a good guy that isn't out to screw his ex and be a douchebag but that doesn't mean he wants to allow it to continue.
So is what you're all telling me in fact the reality? He's now set a precedent and he's screwed? No recourse?
I don't think he's totally screwed...but I think he's paid out far more money than he needed to and I guarantee you that she makes the argument that for 3 years post separation 2014-2017, he's been paying for all these bills and it would be a hardship for her to have to pay them herself.

Now frankly, I think she'll be unsuccessful with that argument but had he been smarter, she wouldn't have the grounds to make it in the first place.

And he's paying far, far more than he'd be paying for SS based on what you implied his salary is. So you tell me if you think its reasonable for your lawyer to advise you to pay more during a time where no order even exists... than you'd pay if there was one in place.

Doesn't make sense right? So yea, bad legal advice.

In general, in these situations, you cut off support pending an order...except for things to support children or employment....because it encourages the party wanting support to move the process along.

I know many, many spouses who literally have to borrow money to get through the interim between filing and getting an interim support order. Its pretty normal. That she's been able to milk this guy for a huge monthly income for 3 years is simply absurd. I can't believe he's been funding her crap. A $600/month gas card?!? For what? She doesn't work. Does she need to shuttle her boyfriends all over town?

I'm sorry but it all sounds absolutely nuts. Unless he's in the NBA, there's no good reason why a lawyer would advise him to give her $600/month for freaking gas when she doesn't even have a job.

The standard in SS cases is to force the other party to prove entitlement and offer nothing until they justify why they need the money.

Now granted, they had a long marriage in which he allowed her to sit around on her useless ass...so its likely she's going to get SS but you don't need to pay her all this other support money.

Its very simple...they're going to add up all the assets and split them...and he should be making the argument that she's able-bodied and can contribute something to her own care and trying to minimize SS and term it. And that forces her to prove her side. By freely handing money over, he's making his whole argument more difficult.

Also, she has an obligation to pay CS and you should be pushing for that to help even out what you have to pay her in SS. CS is the right of the child and all adult parents have an obligation to support their children...including this guy's ex wife.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2017, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by arabian View Post
You have to get a good lawyer. Someone who can represent his interests and who understands business. Most family law lawyers do not have any business experience whatsoever so you will likely have your work cut out for you. My ex had a few lawyers who couldn't even read/understand a basic financial statement. I was fortunate to have a family law lawyer who also has a business degree. Don't fall for the trap of thinking that hiring a "female" will give you any sort of advantage in family court. That sort of thinking might keep your ex out of the courtroom but instead frustrated 3 years from now with nothing happening on his file. Believe it or not there are MANY lawyers out there who simply refuse to go to court. These lawyers instead like to write letters and letters and letters.

So far:

1) family law lawyer who has business degree or background
2) family law lawyer who is prepared to go to court and not just write letters

One of the first things the lawyer should do is ask your man to prepare a personal budget along with the pertinent information from the business. You mentioned your man hired a business evaluator to determine income. This may be good for trial but before you get to that stage you will need simple, easy-to-understand financial summaries of business activity (not a manual). Of course everything should be able to be corroborated. (do you see the reason the family law lawyer has to be able to understand basic business finances?).

Getting the correct lawyer to represent you will make all the difference as you move forward.
Sorry, I was replying to your other post and didn't see this. What's funny is his current lawyer does also have a business degree. He suggested the income valuation immediately to negate letter writing. He said if an expert values the income it's a lot harder to dispute. The business valuation will come after if necessary. I don't want to get into too much detail regarding that except to say that there is proof that the ex has no entitlement to a percentage of the business.
Regardless, I've heard everything you've said and will encourage him to speak to another lawyer to make sure he's on the right track.

Faye
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2017, 09:47 PM
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Agree wholeheartedly. She's just an entitled princess that feels as though she deserves everything and then some. We are trying to expidite the process at this point.
Again, perhaps I'm naive but I simply cannot believe that he won't get credit for not being the douche ex who tries to screw his ex wife over. He's been honest and forthcoming, has provided all information required. Perhaps so many men get raked over the coals because they do things like that?? I don't know. I'd honestly like to think that but again, maybe I'm just being naive.
I'll have him bring everything to another attorney for another consultation ( I've reached out to a non family lawyer acquaintance for a recommendation ) and we'll take it from there I guess.
He can afford his legal fees and our lifestyle is very much home and work. It's how we like it. I also make a great living so while we'd prefer to have this settled soon our relationship is solid and we can take the financial hit.

Faye

Faye, I'm not trying to be harsh...so forgive me...but yes, you're very naive.

He's not going to get nice points for handing over his money...more likely to happen is the complete opposite. He could get totally screwed if he doesn't actually start the process of doing what you do in divorce...and SPLIT UP. She's no longer his wife and shouldn't be enjoying living off him without limitations determined by court order.

Its great that he has a cooperative attitude and is complying with the court process but that's all he should be doing. Enabling his slag ex is a bad idea...she'll whine like a baby in court and there are instances where judges fall for that bull....so be careful.

Find a better lawyer and get her cut off. The poorer she is and the more desperate she is, the more likely that she'll accept a lower settlement rather than go to court.

Your fiance should have all the leverage right now because he has all the money...but that leverage only works if he uses it to force her to settle.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2017, 09:51 PM
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Sorry, I was replying to your other post and didn't see this. What's funny is his current lawyer does also have a business degree. He suggested the income valuation immediately to negate letter writing. He said if an expert values the income it's a lot harder to dispute. The business valuation will come after if necessary. I don't want to get into too much detail regarding that except to say that there is proof that the ex has no entitlement to a percentage of the business.
Regardless, I've heard everything you've said and will encourage him to speak to another lawyer to make sure he's on the right track.

Faye
Maybe see if you can find one that specializes in helping the working spouse to retain as much of their assets as possible.

By the way, don't trust lawyers. When you do your financial statement, they know how much money you have...and far too many of them are trying to get the biggest payout possible.

Your fiance's ex might not be the only one with a hand in his pocket.
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