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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 02-07-2017, 02:06 PM
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Default Hi All. Help Please!

Been a long time since I've posted anything but have continued to come back and read from time to time.
Find myself needing advice on behalf of my FiancÚ. He's in a world of hurt with regards to his divorce but I'll try to keep it brief.

Married in 93

Separation date in 2014 ( breakdown in relationship occurred much earlier though in 2012 when she began extramarital affairs ). Slept in different rooms, stopped going to parties and such together etc...

She has only worked minimally throuought marriage ( he understands there will be SS likely indefinitely )

2 children 21 and 16 ( 16 year old lives with us in my home ). While he essentially lives here, until things are settled he maintains his old home as his primary address.

2 properties. Mat home and family cottage. He has possession of mat home. Adult daughter lives there. She has possession of cottage. He pays mortgages and utilities for both. She also receives 1,600.00/ month and her cell phone, car insurance, gas ( substantial at 600/month ) are paid for by him. In addition, until this month, she has also been taking cash transfers out of their joint account averaging 1,500.00 monthly and also utilizing those funds for personal expenses such as a credit card.

She has filed an application with demands for sole custody, spousal support and child support based on an imputed income of 160K ( just over 6K a month ), sole possession of both properties and an immediate retroactive SS payment of 40K. We think that she wants to sell mat home to facilitate clearing the mortgage on the cottage ( we think a court would be unlikely to make that order ).

His side... he has retained an income evaluator to determine income. He owns a business and this eliminates he said she said. Income will likely come in around 120-135K.

A reasonable interim offer was made in December which was not acknowledged. Instead, she filed her application. Offer was based on top end SS on 130K with an imputed to her income of 20K.

Minor son has been living with his dad ( and now with me as well ) since separation. Don't see how the court would order a change in living arrangements for him at this point. Am I missing something there?

The money he's been giving her along with the cash transfers and the benefits she's been receiving have resulted in a substantial overpayment. There's more in that regard but this is identifying enough so I won't list all of it. Just know it's substantial.

He is seeking that the court impute an income to her ( minimum wage ) as she is still young, in good health and should be obligated to contribute to her own support. Is that unreasonable?

Questions I have.

Does anyone know of SS not being indefinite for a 20 year marriage? Would an inheritance constitute a material change ( her father is in poor health and is very wealthy...millions....)?

Is it relatively common now for judges to impute an income on a spouse who is unwilling to look for work to contribute to their own support? ( fiancÚ is willing to pay top end spousal for a couple of years to facilitate her upgrading her skills to become more financially independent ). Alternatively perhaps a sliding scale? Is this possible?

In terms of the overpayment, is restitution likely? Or at minimum could it be used to offset equalization in terms of property? He wants the house, she wants the cottage. There's approximately 80K more in equity on the house. The over payment would more than cover the 40K cost...

When calculating SS which of low, mid or high amounts are most commonly used?

Lastly, she is claiming that she took on a "traditional" role but for the last several years ( 6 ) of their relationship, he actually did the majority of the cooking and cleaning as well. Could this be used to reduce a compensatory SS claim?

About us. We are both self employed and earn a great living. We don't require or want child support. We're happy to look after our children with our incomes.
He and I want to be fair to her but not get fleeced in the process.

Before any of you ask, we have retained separate counsel to prepare agreements before we get married. �� Once bitten twice shy and all that...

Any input from you all would be great. We'll bring it to our lawyer and try to settle this as quickly as possible. We just want to take a knowledge based proactive stance. Thanks in advance.

Faye
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Old 02-07-2017, 06:51 PM
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No offense...but this guy is out of his mind...and there's no way I'd get involved in a mess like this.

First of all, why the hell hasn't he cut off joint accounts if they got separated in 2014? You're telling me 3 years later (5 years after she cheats on him), he hasn't figured out how to cancel the joint accounts????

Second, why is he giving her ANYTHING without an order in place? At this point, he's now gone and set a precedent that could be very dangerous.

He should be paying nothing except maybe CS without an order in place. If one doesn't exist, he owes her NOTHING. All he's done is given her the perfect reason to stall the divorce and rob him blind in the process.

If you've been through a divorce, why on earth have you not told him to cut off all financial support post separation pending an order???

Bizarre...(am I reading this post wrong?)
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Old 02-07-2017, 07:14 PM
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Guy doesn't sound too bright that's for sure.... and he now has the g/f involved.

I love how men say they did the housework as well as worked and operated a business....

This is the way I see it: He will get totally raked over the coals with regards to his so-called business expenses. He will probably spend megabucks on legal fees because no one is going to tell him (except for a judge along the way) that just because he claimed a 'business expense' at tax time it doesn't mean shit when it comes to determining income for purposes of child or spousal support when you are self-employed.

Traditional marriage is obvious (wife didn't work through marriage). 19 yr marriage (?). How old are these two? At a glance it will be indefinite SS but that is irrelevant because a person can have "indefinite SS" but receive 1.00/year.

Important to set up a relatively short review period (3 - 5 years) with specific wording whereby wife can make realistic steps towards self-sufficiency. A graduated increase of imputed income is commonplace.

Lastly, Faye - don't believe everything your man is telling you. You would do yourself a favor by staying clear of everything and letting the two people, who are parties to the impending litigation, work out this matter. There is nothing more antagonistic than involving current partners in this sort of thing.
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Old 02-07-2017, 07:26 PM
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lol Arabian...I thought maybe I was misreading the post because you'd have to be absolutely crazy to do what this guy is doing. He's basically allowing his lazy deadbeat of an STBX wife to rob him blind...and has been doing it for years.

As for this:

Quote:
Lastly, she is claiming that she took on a "traditional" role but for the last several years ( 6 ) of their relationship, he actually did the majority of the cooking and cleaning as well. Could this be used to reduce a compensatory SS claim?
The answer is laughably "no". They court isn't going to get into a pissing match over who did more vacuuming.

The fact is that you're with a guy who allowed a human leech to use him for years...and now, that has consequences.

My biggest piece of advice right now is tell him to CUT HER OFF. He shouldn't be paying for ANYTHING, NOTHING, NADA without a court order. The only exception to that would be CS but it sounds like their kid is living with you guys...so that doesn't apply.

All joint accounts should have been cut off years ago...now that money is totally unrecoverable. There is no overpayment...what he's been giving her is a pure gift to her that cannot be recouped by him now. So he needs to stop feeding the leech.

And he should be offering nothing to low, termed SS once they go to court because you NEVER offer to pay SS...she has to prove that she deserves it. If she has any education, work history, or special skills...you need to bring that up.

Faye, its your life...but do you really want to get involved in this? It sounds like a train wreck.
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Old 02-07-2017, 07:31 PM
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Yeah Faye - sounds like a really bad situation. I could speculate about why a person lets their ex have free reign to bank accounts. Is he a kinda wimpy guy and wants you to be his savior? Sounds really put-offing to me.

BTW - why on earth is his ex's future inheritance of interest to you or even part of your discussion with him? That's creepy.

Last edited by arabian; 02-07-2017 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 02-07-2017, 07:32 PM
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Hi PersuingHappiness,

I think you might be reading some of it wrong or maybe I didn't explain correctly/ give enough detail....? No child support is payable to her as the minor child lives with him. His lawyer advised against cutting her off from the joint account until just recently. She does not work so lawyer has advised not cutting her off of the monthly benefits she's been receiving. Says that cutting her off could be seen as aggressive and would rather be able to prove overpayment than try to justify aggressive action. Is this not reasonable? Believe me he'd love to tell her where to stuff it...
At the very least we're hoping that it could be used as a negotiating tool but are hoping that the substantial overpayment is returned.
Separation occurred at the end of 2014 about two weeks after he found out about her infidelity. There were problems as I stated ( sleeping in separate rooms etc but he didn't actually have evidence until a few days before Christmas ...she walked out New Year's Eve ). It's actually only been 2 years. He has spent the better part of the last year and a half trying to negotiate. The last offer being in December before she filed her application.

I've never been married. The issues I've had in the past were child support based so I've had no experience in this. Trying to help as well as I can.
He agrees ( as do I ) that this has been going on for far too long but it's where we are at this point.
I hope this clears up some confusion?

Thanks,
Faye
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Old 02-07-2017, 07:36 PM
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Her/their infidelity has no bearing whatsoever on anything.

So you think his lawyer is telling him to just keep letting her have access to joint bank account? This is what your man has told you?

LOL
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Old 02-07-2017, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
Yeah Faye - sounds like a really bad situation. I could speculate about why a person lets their ex have free reign to bank accounts. Is he a kinda wimpy guy and wants you to be his savior? Sounds really put-offing to me.

BTW - why on earth is his ex's future inheritance of interest to you or even part of your discussion with him? That's creepy.
Hi Arabian,
Lol. No. Not wimpy at all. Quite the opposite but he is a really good man and wants to be fair. Commendable in my opinion....but maybe I'm a bit naive... 😐
We're aware that just because rev can allows deductions doesn't mean family court does. It's the reason he's hired an income evaluator.
I brought the inheritance up because it came up in conversation between us and thought I'd put the question to you all. I couldn't care less what she does or doesn't have now or in the future.

Faye
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Old 02-07-2017, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
Her/their infidelity has no bearing whatsoever on anything.

So you think his lawyer is telling him to just keep letting her have access to joint bank account? This is what your man has told you?

LOL
Actually yes. I was at the meeting when the lawyer said so. As neither of us are attorneys it sounded reasonable based on the explanation that was given. He doesn't like it but was willing to concede to his lawyer.
I stayed out of it for a long time but the man works insane hours and just wasn't handling it so I offered to help. Things are at least finally progressing....

Faye
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Old 02-07-2017, 07:47 PM
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OMFG...get a new lawyer. You're telling me you have a lawyer who f'ing told you that it was a good idea to keep joint credit accounts open and let her rob you?!?!?

Seriously...you need a real lawyer...that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I'm mad for you right now. How infuriating.

If she had his car and was using it to get to work...ok, maybe. But she's sitting on her ass all day and he's telling your fiance to let him rob her? Ughhhh...I'm dying reading this...

Who gives a shit if he's aggressive? She's going to screw him on SS anyway...you think letting her rob him now is going to limit that in any way? Its just more money in the pissing pot. CUT HER OFF...SHE'S A LEECH.

Make her PROVE entitlement. He owes her nothing. If she's choosing not to get off her ass and work...tough luck...not his problem.

And let me make this crystal clear...you have no negotiating tools. And letting her rob you guys indefinitely until she feels like finalizing the divorce certainly isn't a negotiating tactic. He needs to get tough and tell her to piss off cause the gravy train is over.

Her screwing around doesn't matter...the court won't care. It sounds like the separation date was clearly established in 2014 since he was wishy-washy about cutting her off. And he's still being wishy-washy and managed to find a lawyer with the same qualities...unreal.

My advice...
#1. Cut this lazy leech off!!!! Close all joint accounts, stop providing any financial support.
2. Get a real lawyer...a tough one
3. You need to both sit down and discuss the long-term ramifications of supporting a grown-ass adult woman for the rest of your lives and what effect that's going to have on your relationship.

As for the inheritance, I get that your fiance is looking for a way out of this mess...and I'd be too if I were him. If his SS agreement is based on need, and she doesn't have any real financial need due to inheritance, there is a chance that he could make that argument at that time.

But first things first....

You sound like a really nice person Faye....just be careful what you get involved in...this sounds really messy.

Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 02-07-2017 at 07:56 PM.
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