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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 12-12-2016, 10:11 AM
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So as you know from other posts My STBX is seeking Spousal Support.

She has contacted a Lawyer and he keeps sending me emails indicating I have to pay and I should. I'll be honest I was close to paying just out of straight intimidation by the lawyer and her. We did our own agreement back in 2014 and had it notarized by a Lawyer. I have talked to 2 lawyers and both said I should just pay her. ? Because she didn't have legal advise on her own.

See below what I just got from her Lawyer Friday looking for advice on what to do from her. I make 85,000 and she makes $20.000 we have 2 kids and 14 years together. On our original agreement we crossed out the area were spousal was indicated to pay her and she was fine with that when she left,


Thank you for your email.

I am not in a position to provide you with legal advice about your matter, it seems that you have sought some level of advice and I suggest you speak with the legal counsel of your choice to learn more about the opportunities available to Ms. in seeking a spousal support Order from a court. The issue of a material change is not of particular concern here because I would anticipate bringing an Application seeking to set aside the existing “separation agreement” in whole or in part. Alternatively and in addition, I anticipate that Ms. ? would seek a consideration of the issue of spousal support pursuant to the Divorce Act. Doing so is not necessarily barred by the existence of a separation agreement (regardless of the issue of validity), which is only one of a series of factors the court will consider.


The bottom line as I see it is this: either you are willing to settle the issue of spousal support on the basis of the compromise you have negotiated with Ms. ? or you wish instead to invest in a costly and lengthy legal battle. If you are now not agreeable to the payment of any spousal support, it seems unlikely that any settlement can be reached by agreement, though I will of course speak with Ms. ? about any substantive changes you propose.

Yours truly,
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Old 12-12-2016, 10:19 AM
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I have received and seen much more intimidating letters.

First thing - don't listed to your ex or her lawyer (although I think her lawyer is merely telling you to get legal advice).

As her lawyer is quite well aware, the onus is on his client/your ex to prove entitlement to SS. DO NOT pay a dime until you have consulted with a lawyer. You may have "talked" to two lawyers back in 2014 but that isn't the same as retaining one.

What did you and your ex agree to, without legal advice, back in 2014?
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Old 12-12-2016, 10:26 AM
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The other side has filed an application and served you? Or are you just freaking out over lawyer letters again?
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Old 12-12-2016, 12:01 PM
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The other side has not filed an application yet. He has indicated to me that they will be doing so if I don't pay. I have just spoken to a lawyer 6 month ago and also said I should pay? I Don't understand it all . Why would I pay when she indicated she was fine , he said I should pay and she didn't have legal advice so they have a good case ?


We did a whole agreement , we both could not afford Lawyers at the time so this was the route we went , I bought her out of the house also done with a lawyer and Mortgage company and gave her a bunch of RRSP. We also agreed to no spousal and crossed that area off the agreement where it stated the husband will pay the wife support. I pay offset child support to the amount of $1070.00 per month. We have a schedule in place with the kids 50/50. It says right in our agreement that this is a final settlement to all rights ,claims , and demands with respect to support and property. It also indicates the following

they have each received full or independent legal advice with respect to this agreement and the alternative avaliable to the execution of it or being aware of their entitlement to full and independent legal advice, they have nonetheless, chosen to waive same and elect to proceed with the execution of this agreement absent such advice.

This agreement we bought and filled in all the blanks, Yes its not the best agreement and could be allot better but it was what we both agreed to at the time



We both sat with a Lawyer together and he signed it with us and was the witness ,


Yes the whole thing scares me.
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Old 12-12-2016, 01:25 PM
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The only way the agreement will be thrown out is if at the time of the signing the agreement is unconscionable in the eyes of the Divorce Act.

If you can get them to admit that there was a CHANGE in the life of the your ex SINCE signing the agreement that prompted this then it would help you prove that the real impetus isn't that the agreement was unconscionable but that something changed (and should not be considered since your agreement waives future consideration).

Not if it is unfair.... It has to be unconscionable. That's a big word and normally words like that have "high barriers" to cross.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability

You have to read case law ... Miglin vs Miglin and all the landmark cases that come after. People have to accept the agreements they make and cannot re-open them because they later think it is unfair.

Don't pay, don't listen to lawyers. Do your research. Fight the re-opening of a signed agreement between 2 consenting adults who were under no undue hardship. Furthermore you are still paying her 1000$/mo tax free and gave her all the assets etc....

If your ex-wife was anything but a full-time SAHM and you were a somewhat involved parent and the fact you have 50/50 shared parenting (because SS goes towards paying sole custody mothers for their future parenting sacrifices as well) you can argue that you had both agreed her rights were minor.

Furthermore, if there are any meeting minutes, notes, text messages etc.... between you to while the agreement was being signed you can bring that.

Furthermore, the lawyer who signed the agreement with you. Did he explain to both parties why and what they were signing and what her rights might be etc...?

Last edited by Links17; 12-12-2016 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 12-12-2016, 02:25 PM
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HI Everyone

Yes the Lawyer did explain our rights and also it indicates that on the agreement on the last page.

Her Lawyer also said because she did not get the full amount of RRSP that it was an unfair deal, I kept 80.000 and she got 44,000 but we both agreed to this at the time.

He also said I will be liable for her legal fees once they win the over turn of the agreement
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Old 12-12-2016, 03:12 PM
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Blah blah blah the other lawyer said...

Taplin v Walsh, 2016 ONSC 2998 (CanLII)
Date: 2016-05-12
Docket: FC-14-231
Citation: Taplin v Walsh, 2016 ONSC 2998 (CanLII)
http://canlii.ca/t/gr91p

If you agree to something you are stuck with it. Let the lawyer for the other party whine and complain. Send them this case law and tell them to shut up.
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Old 12-12-2016, 04:17 PM
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Thanks.
Her Lawyer keeps trying , I said I agree somethings could be added or amended but the things your seeking have been dealt with already.

I'll admit I almost paid her for all this to go away , it has caused so much stress over the past year I can't believe it. He also indicated that she didn't sign as full sign off. Shit I even have an email that she said I will not seek spousal if you pay for my benifits. 7 months ago she sent that

Also can I be Liable for all these legal fees?
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zanman View Post
Thanks.
Her Lawyer keeps trying , I said I agree somethings could be added or amended but the things your seeking have been dealt with already.

I'll admit I almost paid her for all this to go away , it has caused so much stress over the past year I can't believe it. He also indicated that she didn't sign as full sign off. Shit I even have an email that she said I will not seek spousal if you pay for my benifits. 7 months ago she sent that

Also can I be Liable for all these legal fees?
Sounds to me the lawyer is trying to get you to agree without having to go to trial to overturn the order - which is a lot of legal costs that she may not be able to afford.

My suggestion, don't consent. You don't need to respond to the lawyer. You don't have to pay any costs unless they go to trial and get everything that they are asking for - which is very unlikely. On the other hand, if they lose, they will have to pay your costs.

My other suggestion is, get a free referral from the law society and meet with a lawyer to review your documents and see what they say - you get 30 minutes of free consult - take advantage of it - may just take one letter from a lawyer that knows the other lawyer to shut them up.
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Old 12-12-2016, 07:37 PM
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I would drag the negotiations on for as long as possible to waste your ex's money and but always refuse at the end. This is war.

Try not be such a loser, you owe the tramp nothing. I encourage my ex-wife to find a new boyfriend to pay for her, you should do the same.
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