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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2017, 10:39 AM
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Hi Arabian,

Interesting information regarding your son. I wonder why the form requires that information then. I will do some more research (and consult with a lawyer). That said the SSAG numbers are still $0 for low and mid-point. I will also research cases where SS at high end value was granted.
I am not fighting division of assets and debts.
My ex receive 75% of the proceeds of the sale of the previous matrimonial home as part of our separation agreement. It should be noted that even though we purchased the home together, I was solely responsible for paying down the mortgage, and all household bills. Her income went toward her university. After 4 years, we refinanced the mortgage and paid off her debts ($30K). I continued to be solely responsible for the mortgage and the bills. We separated, sold, and I agreed to the 75/25 split, again because she had accumulated debts. I am again not disputing the fact that she is entitled to 50% value of the home at separation.
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:17 PM
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Arabian,
That's interesting information Re: your son. I wonder why the information is required on the form then. I will do some research on the subject.
I do not dispute the fact that she is entitled to 50% of the house at separation. I'm willing to make the equalization payment. I'm just disputing the sale of the house.
My ex received 75% of the 1st home proceeds as part of our separation agreement.
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alberich View Post
The income of my ex's father is relevant for Spousal Support, not child support (sorry for the misunderstanding). Part 3 of the Financial Statement form 13.1 actually requires to disclose the name, employment and income information of other income earners in the home if you are making a claim for Spousal Support, which the ex is doing.
Your ex's father is not a spouse. Grandpa is not a party to the case and guess what... The court won't care or order his income disclosure. I would drop this one and move on. You will look like an idiot with that argument.
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Your ex's father is not a spouse. Grandpa is not a party to the case and guess what... The court won't care or order his income disclosure. I would drop this one and move on. You will look like an idiot with that argument.
What if the father has wills ?
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:55 PM
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Tayken, please share what you are basing your statement on?

ontariocourtforms.on.ca/forms/family/13.1/FLR-13-1-Jan15.

The above form requires the income of other incomes earners to be disclosed

In Schwabe v. Schwabe, 2008 CanLII 64392, Par 11, the Judge stated:

"the wife submits that the husband has failed to complete his financial statement in that he has failed to complete Part 6 of his financial statement relating to “Other Income Earners in the Home”...there is no doubt that the law requires the form to be completed and the respondent is ordered to do so within the next 30 days."

In M.A.L.F. v. C.D.F., 2003 CanLII 2313, the judge stated:
"the father neglected to disclose in his current financial statement the other income earner under his current living arrangements. The income of his partner is said to exceed $30,000."

In Matthews v. Matthews, 2001 CanLII 28118, the husband challenged
his obligation to complete Part 4 of his Financial Statement (Form 13),
in which be would be required to disclose the income of other income earners in his home.
The judge stated “the income of anyone sharing the…party’s household becomes relevant in order to complete the standards of living test provided for in s. 10(4).”
He then ordered the husband to complete all sections of the Financial Statement.
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
- I disagree with SS. She works and earns $80K/year. She lives with her father, who earns $60K/year. She refuses to disclose her fatherís income. SSAG calculation show both low and midpoint amounts at $0.00 (thatís without the income of the other income earner in the home)
Precisely. If she lives with her father who earns about $60K/year and she also refuses to disclose her father's income. That is not an honest representation of her current financial situation. As I understand it, you are not entitled to pay her alimony if she lives with someone who also reports an income and help pay for some of her daily living expenses. I would guess she does not have to pay rent/mortgage at Dad's place.

Quote:
I requested to maintain the shared parenting that has been in place for a year. But I was obligated to request sole custody in the event a judge rules joint custody not feasible. The ex works on call on odd weeks, and does not make it back home before 6:30PM on even weeks. She relies on 16 years old baby sitters to look after the children, and sporadically on her mother. She is often late to take the children to their extra-curricular activities. All occurrences are documented. I work Monday to Friday, 8 to 4PM. I drop the children to daycare before school, and pick them up after school. I do homework, make dinner, and ensure they make it to all their extracurricular activities. My oldest child has requested many times to come live with me. I have explained to her that these matters take time, and that she should be patient. I return her every week.
Sounds to me like solid parenting on your part, which should look favorably in the eyes of the judge. I'll stay stick to your routine and keeping doing the right thing and what is in the children's best interest.

Quote:
- I donít agree with an order for exclusive possession of the matrimonial home, even though she has had de facto exclusive possession of the matrimonial home since I have moved out.
Sounds like greed. Why is she asking for exclusive possession? Did she pay the mortgage all by herself?

Quote:
- She has had exclusive use of the matrimonial property content since separation. I only left with a suitcase containing my clothes. I only ask for the value of the content to be reflected on her NFPÖ which she refuses.
Your request is fair and it again sounds to me like she is being greedy.
Quote:
To me, the case is straight forward. As long as I continue parenting the way I do, I donít believe a judge would remove the children from my care. As far as the house is concerned, I want to keep it. Itís the children inheritance. However, the worst that can happen is that there is an order to sale it. That would not be the end of the world either.
Sounds straight forward indeed if there are no ambiguities in your financial disclosure and you have all record or proof of all claims you make. I think this is usually the hard part.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2017, 03:02 PM
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"As I understand it, you are not entitled to pay her alimony if she lives with someone who also reports an income and help pay for some of her daily living expenses. I would guess she does not have to pay rent/mortgage at Dad's place."

This is incorrect information. As Tayken pointed out earlier, the father-in-law is not party to the litigation and therefore his income is irrelevant.
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Old 02-04-2017, 04:08 PM
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No one is commenting on form 13.1 and the cases I have posted. I appreciate opinions, but I would like to hear from cases, decisions, or personal experiences.
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Old 02-04-2017, 04:17 PM
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The father in law is not a party to the litigation. I have never claimed he was. However, since he resides with one of the parties, (the applicant). Since there is a claim for spousal support, the applicant shall disclose the income of all income earner who reside with the party vlaiming support. This comes from a lawyer. Now, all of you who disagree with this, please offer more than just opinions. We are looking for facts, cases...support. whether it be pro or con...just support your statements.
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Old 02-04-2017, 04:53 PM
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Personal opinion and experience - my own situation. I was married for 30 years and I successfully beat my ex in court 12 TWELVE times when he tried to have SS overturned. I was represented by competent legal counsel as was my ex.

My advice to you is to start by understanding the 3 basics upon which SS is awarded and then go from there. If you don't understand this you will end up wasting your time debating the righteousness of SS.

Fact - SS is legal in Canada (like it or not). Actually, courts could care less whether you like it or not.

SS is not automatic and it is up to the person seeking SS to prove
entitlement
.

SSAG are merely guidelines. SS is not like CS.

If YOU want to review SS cases then spend some time on CanLii. No one is going to do your homework for you. If you don't have time to spend countless hours researching then hire a lawyer.

If either party (Applicant or Respondent) are claiming "undue hardship" then household income OF BOTH PARTIES can and may be reviewed.

I would to have dearly loved to had included my ex's g/f's income in response to my ex's numerous applications in court as my ex HID money under girlfriend's name... in fact he was quite blatant about it.
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