Fraudulent Receipts

[knackered]

How often do father's actually get to go to court and fight over fraudulent child care receipts produced by their ex/mother of children?

Basically I am sure my ex is paying child care under the table--my ex claims it on her taxes, but I doubt the babysitter is claiming it as income on her taxes.
As far as I know, this is illegal.

My ex and I both have lawyers.
My ex is trying to get babysitting costs back to 2010---her lawyer admitted that they have no receipt for 2010.
They produced a copy of a receipt for 2011 to my lawyer---but it is clear that it is my ex's writing on the receipt. She's making up the receipt herself.

My lawyer is just telling me to pay it. (Unfortunately I am in a hard spot financially because of everything my ex has taken from me in the past...I will never recover from it at this rate, and I cannot afford to "just pay it")

I'm getting the impression from my lawyer that this is not even worth fighting, that a judge would not even consider that fact that my ex is "making up" these receipts herself, committing fraud.

Is this how it is? or are there other lawyers out there who will fight cases like this and win?

[Berner_Faith]

Have you contacted the babysitter directly? Has the ex taken into account any child care benefits she receives?

We had the same issue with my bf's ex...she basically gave us a receipt she made off the computer...no names or anything...we requested actual receipts from the babysitter proving she has paid this expense, however she was unable to produce... the costs for 2010 were thrown out because she could not provide receipts... we have set up a spreadsheet that must be filled out and signed by the babysitter indicating... dates, times and price for each time she watches the kids...the ex must also produce a signed receipt from the babysitter and either a bank statement or a copy of the cheque she used to pay.

[Tayken]

Originally Posted by knackered

How often do father's actually get to go to court and fight over fraudulent child care receipts produced by their ex/mother of children?

This issue does show up in court a lot actually you just don't see many posted decisions about it. I have sat in a pile of S7 expense claims and watched the motions on this actually happen. It usually ends up with the Judge asking for the receipts, the party making the request not having any and then it going to adjournment and never coming back to court because it is a dead issue.

The worst part is that the party dragged to court on bogus claims never gets to claim costs against the party requesting money without evidence generally.

The orders generally that end up coming out of the motions basically read saying that the party has to pay for valid expenses that are receipted and in accordance with the services required under the Day Nursery Act of Ontario.

Originally Posted by knackered

Basically I am sure my ex is paying child care under the table--my ex claims it on her taxes, but I doubt the babysitter is claiming it as income on her taxes.

As far as I know, this is illegal.

1. You are correct it is illegal.

2. Just report it to Revenue Canada and provide the evidence you have regarding the services being provided. It is Revenue Canada's responsibility to take the anonymous complaint and investigate it against the party receiving the funds.

Originally Posted by knackered

My ex and I both have lawyers.

Then the lawyer on the other side should KNOW that it requires receipts to request the expenses. Even the FRO wants them.

Originally Posted by knackered

My ex is trying to get babysitting costs back to 2010---her lawyer admitted that they have no receipt for 2010.

The argument to this that I have seen used time and time again by good "solution oriented solicitors" is to basically point out that you could claim that you have paid $X in childcare, don't have the receipts to prove it and require $Y dollar from the other party to cover YOUR costs.

See why they want real receipts and validation against an HST number that the expense was incurred?

Originally Posted by knackered

They produced a copy of a receipt for 2011 to my lawyer---but it is clear that it is my ex's writing on the receipt. She's making up the receipt herself.

Ask for the business license, tax information (HST/GST numbers) etc... If the receipt doesn't show it... It has to by law. These are NOT hidden taxes. They have to form part of the receipt for the service delivered.

Originally Posted by knackered

My lawyer is just telling me to pay it. (Unfortunately I am in a hard spot financially because of everything my ex has taken from me in the past...I will never recover from it at this rate, and I cannot afford to "just pay it")

Cause it is causing conflict and the lawyer doesn't feel it is worth the fight. It may not be. Also it sets a president that you are willing to pay for stuff without proper information. So I would tell the lawyer you are not going to set president as they will just make up more receipts and more fake numbers that are bigger and demand payment.

Originally Posted by knackered

I'm getting the impression from my lawyer that this is not even worth fighting, that a judge would not even consider that fact that my ex is "making up" these receipts herself, committing fraud.

Form 20 request the information from the other side. Ask for the details on a Form 20 request. The other party will GO AWAY for sure.

Originally Posted by knackered

Is this how it is? or are there other lawyers out there who will fight cases like this and win?

It isn't even a fight. Just fill out the Form 20 with the proper request for information (name of service provider, contact information, HST/GST information, business license information, and all the information regarding a "daycare" from the Daycare Act of Ontario like their emergency response documentation, etc...)

Judges can't order you to use a private service and pay for it. They go on motion on this ordeal then you request and demand that the services be in accordance with the Daycare Act of Ontario and that a real licensed daycare with proper policies and registrations be ordered as relief. Also that they bill you directly for the services delivered.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[knackered]

I called the babysitter today to question if she wrote the receipts out. She says she did, so I have to take her word on that. (Even though the writing on the receipt is identical to my ex's)
There was a 9 digit number on the receipt, I questioned the babysitter if that was her social insurance number. She said it was.
When I asked for her hst/gst number, she said she doesn't have one and didn't realize she needed one.
Does that indicate that she isn't claiming the babysitting income on her taxes?
I also asked if she had a copy of the 2010 receipt, she said that she didn't know, but would look through her files. (If she is running this as a legitimate business/claiming everything to the government, she would need to have record of everything, correct?)

[mcdreamy]

Originally Posted by knackered

When I asked for her hst/gst number, she said she doesn't have one and didn't realize she needed one.

She doesn't need an HST number if she isn't earning $30,000/annum.
And there is really no need for you to ask for one, unless you are an HST registrant yourself, you have your child daycare somehow as part of your business, and intend to claim/remit HST.

[Tayken]

Originally Posted by mcdreamy

She doesn't need an HST number if she isn't earning $30,000/annum.
And there is really no need for you to ask for one, unless you are an HST registrant yourself, you have your child daycare somehow as part of your business, and intend to claim/remit HST.

Most "home" daycares have an average of 5 children. At 5 children for 52 weeks @ 65/day/per child it is on average 84,500 in income. 90% of home daycare providers have HST numbers.

Second, the HST number is required when filing the receipt with your income taxes which the OP can claim for their portion of the child care costs. Basically, without a proper reciept the tax filing runs the risk of being rejected. Furthermore, the home daycare provider will have the tax department on them when the OP files their income taxes.

Home daycare providers are service providers. They shouldn't get a pass on operating their business properly.

Another good thing to ask for is a copy of their liability insurance. Most don't carry it and should.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[Berner_Faith]

I don't believe a HST number is required... http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t778/t778-11e.pdf

To me $65 seems steep on a per child per day basis, however the rates are going to fluctuate. But as stated in the above document...only the name and social insurance number is required.

[Rioe]

Originally Posted by Tayken

Most "home" daycares have an average of 5 children. At 5 children for 52 weeks @ 65/day/per child it is on average 84,500 in income.

I think most home daycare operators would laugh and cry to hear that estimate! Around here, I think $35 a day is far more common, and they are not always full at 5 children (and that's not the average, that's the legal maximum) every day. They may have a combination of full time and part time clients, and when one client leaves, there isn't one automatically waiting immediately to take the spot the next day.

And you're leaving out expenses! They have to feed these children, have toys and supplies for them, pay increased utilities, advertise, provide reports to parents, etc etc etc. They also do not receive paid holidays or sick days. And it's way more than an 8 hour day.

Most home daycare providers do not do it for the income, they do it because they love it.

And on topic, I have never had a provider with a HST number, but I don't know what the requirements are.

[blinkandimgone]

Agreed, I have no idea where Tayken is getting this information from but I don't know a SINGLE home daycare provider who has an hst number or charges $65/day, even for a newborn or multiples or has liability insurance - and I know a lot of home daycare providers and have been one in the past. That's crazy.

[knackered]

Thanks for all the comments. Obviously it depends on the child care provider/how much income they truly collect.
I have seen 4 children with the babysitter...don't know if she would have anymore that I just haven't seen.
Also none of my ex's numbers match--on her court financial statement, she said she pays $580 a month for child care.
Well that only equals $6960 for the year.
On her taxes she claimed $10,000
She also gave me a piece of paper one time that she wrote-- calculating 5 months at $4000 and some.