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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 09-03-2012, 08:00 PM
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Default Filling out and serving Form 20 Request for Information...

I am filling out and serving my Form 20 tomorrow to my ex who has thus far, absolutely refused to disclose his income. Can i serve it myself or is it best to have another ( I have a willing friend) do it for me? Will my friend then need to fill out an affidavit stating they served this form to my ex and have it signed in front of a proper witness at the court house in the likely event that he ignores this and I must file a motion to get him into court?

Also, when I end up having to file a motion to bring him into court, I can ask for costs. What do 'costs' entail? Can I ask him for the amount it is costing me to miss work the days I have to go to the court house? Can I ask for gas? Am I being petty? I lose upwards of 300 dollars a day when I have to go to court over this stupid s&*t he is supposed to be doing on his own.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:31 AM
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I am filling out and serving my Form 20 tomorrow to my ex who has thus far, absolutely refused to disclose his income. Can i serve it myself or is it best to have another ( I have a willing friend) do it for me? Will my friend then need to fill out an affidavit stating they served this form to my ex and have it signed in front of a proper witness at the court house in the likely event that he ignores this and I must file a motion to get him into court?

Also, when I end up having to file a motion to bring him into court, I can ask for costs. What do 'costs' entail? Can I ask him for the amount it is costing me to miss work the days I have to go to the court house? Can I ask for gas? Am I being petty? I lose upwards of 300 dollars a day when I have to go to court over this stupid s&*t he is supposed to be doing on his own.
1. Have the service done by a proper service provider.
2. If you have your friend do it, yes they will have to fill out an affidavit of service.
3. Don't do it yourself. It just makes things worse.
4. You will probably have to bring a motion before the court if the other party doesn't provide the necessary disclosure.
5. You can ask for costs for your efforts. Generally the court (thanks to WorkingDad) will allocate your time at 100$ an hour. There is supporting case law to this fact. Keep track of all your time in a time-sheet like you would for work.
6. You are not being petty really... The vast majority of separated and divorced parents do not have to use the court system to get what is proper and right done. People just generally do the right thing in the matter.

First thing first, have the materials served properly. Then worry about the motion. Then costs.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:38 AM
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Default Disclosure

Using Form 20 is the incorrect form for asking for information. Form 20 relates more to child protection.

What one should do is write a formal request under Rule 19. If one is asking for Financial Information relating the Sworn Financial Statement then write a formal request under Rule 13 (clause 11).
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:47 AM
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Using Form 20 is the incorrect form for asking for information. Form 20 relates more to child protection.

What one should do is write a formal request under Rule 19. If one is asking for Financial Information relating the Sworn Financial Statement then write a formal request under Rule 13 (clause 11).
Actually, it is quite often used and the LSUC provided instruction that the form is to be used in 2011 to all solicitors.

I have personally written to the government about fixing the wording of the miss statement of the Rule on the form and for it to be updated. It has been a while since the form has gotten a proper update.

Arguing that a Form 20 before a judge is inappropriate, as I have witnessed now personally twice, will only get the judge to order what is on the Form 20 faster, and share some directed comments, remind everyone of the Rules of court and directed comments at the litigant and solicitor trying to state otherwise and put really short time lines on the disclosure being requested.

In short, want to make a judge really mad fast? Refuse financial disclosures that are reasonable and made in accordance with the Rules.

Chapter 34
Procedure and the Family Law Rules
Page 348 - 348
Section: 3.6.1 Document disclosure, request to admit, and questioning

http://rc.lsuc.on.ca/pdf/ht/famProce...lyLawRules.pdf

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3.6.1 Document disclosure, request to admit, and questioning

If a party believes that another party’s financial statement does not contain enough information for a full understanding of that party’s financial circumstances, the requesting party must first ask for the additional information (r. 13(11)(a)). This can be done by letter although it is better to use a Form 20 – Request for Information, the original of which should be filed in the continuing record with proof of service. If the information is not provided, the requesting party can bring a motion and ask for an order requiring the respondent to provide it (r. 13(11)(b)). In the event the order is not complied with, the court may dismiss the respondent’s case, strike out his or her Answer, make a contempt order, or order that any information that should have appeared on the Financial Statement not be used at a motion or trial or any other appropriate order (r. 13(17)).
PS: This is a very complex area of disclosure that even panel lawyers from LOA who are approved to take Certificates in the area of "Family Law" do not know for some odd reason. Many family law lawyers are more involved in being negative advocates and ignore the Rules/play negligent to their professional obligations? (Just a theory.)

Good Luck!
Tayken

Last edited by Tayken; 09-04-2012 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:00 PM
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So today I had my Form 20 served, then went to the court with my friend to have the affidavit of service signed in front of a commissioner and the commissioner said the same thing Limer said. I read the rules myself Tayken as per your advice and educated her. Then I went to file my papers and the woman at the desk where I was filing said that I was right, it was the correct form. Thank you Tayken!! She also informed me that it was likely a waste of time because even after he fails to comply (I'm absolutely certain he will) a judge will want to see me to discuss this anyway so another Basket Motion won't work, but that I am doing a good job of building up a case that shows his irresponsibility (as you also said Tayken).

So I figure I have two more court trips to make. Once to file the motion for a (case conference?) in front of the judge to get a disclosure of income ordered and the second time to go back and get support ordered in the right amount (assuming he provides his income statements). Fingers crossed anyway!! Thanks for your help
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:51 PM
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So today I had my Form 20 served, then went to the court with my friend to have the affidavit of service signed in front of a commissioner and the commissioner said the same thing Limer said.
It is a rarely understood rule and the matters are complex. Really, they need to fix Form 20 so it accurately states the Rules. Last update (as stamped on Form 20 distributed by the government) is September 1, 2005!

Not surprised that the commissioner wasn't aware of the Rules. Also, Form 20 doesn't require to be sworn. It isn't an affidavit. The commissioner should have known this too.

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I read the rules myself Tayken as per your advice and educated her. Then I went to file my papers and the woman at the desk where I was filing said that I was right, it was the correct form. Thank you Tayken!!
You are very welcome. Doing things by the Rules is always a good demonstration to the court that you are making every effort to do things "in accordance with the Rules". It is unfortunate that even people claiming to be "experts" often don't know the Rules.

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Originally Posted by court View Post
She also informed me that it was likely a waste of time because even after he fails to comply (I'm absolutely certain he will) a judge will want to see me to discuss this anyway so another Basket Motion won't work, but that I am doing a good job of building up a case that shows his irresponsibility (as you also said Tayken).
Giving the other parent every opportunity to fail by leveraging the Rules, proving notice, knowing the Rules and executing them correctly will go a long way with a judge hearing the matters. It is always best to outline in an affidavit all the proper things you tried to settle matters prior to bringing matters on motion.

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Originally Posted by court View Post
So I figure I have two more court trips to make. Once to file the motion for a (case conference?) in front of the judge to get a disclosure of income ordered and the second time to go back and get support ordered in the right amount (assuming he provides his income statements). Fingers crossed anyway!! Thanks for your help
Good Luck! Doing things the right way, although not the fastest, will generally have the best result in Family Law.

Tayken
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