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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2015, 02:55 PM
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All good points. Thanks.

I did speak with a police officer today and explained the situation. He said I would need a legal order for them to enforce it. So if I show up there, they are within their rights to kick me off the property. But of course this too is not a solutoon because you are right kids don't need to see cops with their dad on fathers day.

At hammerdad, i actually did send a similar note. I was very nice in my not as per my lawyers instructions practice biff (brief, informative, firm and friendly). I advised the ex that she was in breach of our agreement and I also reminded her that I gave her the same courtesy. The response was "I now have plans that weekend and therefore the day is no longer approved, celebrate fathers day on your own time". I then nicely asked her that if it was an convenience to drive back to town I had no issues picking them up. The answer to back was that her sunday has been planned out already. I now sit here and shake my head and pull my hairs out. Is there something my lawyer can do? Maybe send a note to her lawyer?
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Old 06-02-2015, 03:04 PM
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I'm not sure there's much you can do. Your ex is being a jerk, but unfortunately there's no way to make jerks stop being jerks. You've already advised her that you do not agree with her behavior and offered a co-operative solution with picking the kids up. So you are being very reasonable and she isn't. I'm not sure your lawyer needs to be involved here, as that would just be extra expense for you and probably wouldn't affect her behavior. She already knows she's wrong, and you've already informed her that this will affect your willingness to co-operate on future schedule changes that she might want.
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Old 06-02-2015, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcj2012 View Post
All good points. Thanks.

I did speak with a police officer today and explained the situation. He said I would need a legal order for them to enforce it. So if I show up there, they are within their rights to kick me off the property. But of course this too is not a solutoon because you are right kids don't need to see cops with their dad on fathers day.

At hammerdad, i actually did send a similar note. I was very nice in my not as per my lawyers instructions practice biff (brief, informative, firm and friendly). I advised the ex that she was in breach of our agreement and I also reminded her that I gave her the same courtesy. The response was "I now have plans that weekend and therefore the day is no longer approved, celebrate fathers day on your own time". I then nicely asked her that if it was an convenience to drive back to town I had no issues picking them up. The answer to back was that her sunday has been planned out already. I now sit here and shake my head and pull my hairs out. Is there something my lawyer can do? Maybe send a note to her lawyer?
You could have your lawyer send her lawyer an ALL (angry lawyers letter) stating that the ex is refusing to abide by an agreement made in good faith. That they will ensure the judge is aware of the ex's refusal to provide the children for father's day, after you provided the children to her for Mother's Day in accordance with the email agreement by her dated X. That unless she adheres to the agreement, any future changes to the parenting schedule she may wish will require that you get your parenting time prior to the date of change she needs as she cannot be trusted to adhere to the agreement once she has received the benefit from it.
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Old 06-02-2015, 08:59 PM
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Agreed on withholding the kids from her access time - not a good solution. The whole two wrongs don't make a right theory would apply here. And how do you take her to court for something that you demonstrate you are entirely willing to do as well?
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Old 06-03-2015, 12:30 PM
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I agree with what everyone is saying here. My suggestion was only a potential alternative to have the kids on Fathers day. based on the information provided, there is zero chance she will provide the kids on fathers day.

It would be interesting to know once the order is finalized what penalty, if any she gets for withholding fathers day this year. I have read so many cases were little to no punishment has been handed down for this type of behaviour.

So going forward what does dad do? Obviously he has an ex that won't be civil. So does he continue to be the good parent, nice guy and facilitate his ex's requests when she does have hers?

Or does he stoop to her level and just say no to everything? Both suck, one way she takes everything and the other way creates more conflict.
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Old 06-03-2015, 12:49 PM
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There are many people here who have reverted back to following their orders as worded due to unreasonable behaviour on the part of the ex. Does it make you look like a dick? Maybe. Would saying yes and getting walked all over be better? No. You can consider things on an individual basis and maybe give it a year and see how things go. She might wise up, she might not.
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Old 06-03-2015, 12:51 PM
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@ canadaguy, it really would have been nice to do it tho! lol. but I don't think I could really have pulled it off anyway, because I want to remain the "sane" person and I don't want to hurt my kids.

I am really nervous now because I have summer vacations coming up with my children and I feel as tho I am walking on egg shells waiting to see if she will pull those email approvals as well. all of my vacations are paid for! while I know I can possible get the courts to make her pay me back if she does pull it. I don't want to lose the vacation time with my kids because she is pissed over court proceedings! Now I sit here and wait for the email saying "I no longer approve this"...really!!! I feel as tho she has so much power here. I can almost guarantee she will do it!! I would never think to do that to her and I haven't because the kids are normally excited about planned vacations and outings and I never want to disappoint them.

I see my lawyer this week, so hopefully she can shed some light on this and what to do in the future when an "approved" request all of a sudden becomes "unapproved" just because she had a bad day or is pissed at me. No one can have this much power over your life...it's crazy!!
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Old 06-03-2015, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcj2012 View Post
@ canadaguy, it really would have been nice to do it tho! lol. but I don't think I could really have pulled it off anyway, because I want to remain the "sane" person and I don't want to hurt my kids.

I am really nervous now because I have summer vacations coming up with my children and I feel as tho I am walking on egg shells waiting to see if she will pull those email approvals as well. all of my vacations are paid for! while I know I can possible get the courts to make her pay me back if she does pull it. I don't want to lose the vacation time with my kids because she is pissed over court proceedings! Now I sit here and wait for the email saying "I no longer approve this"...really!!! I feel as tho she has so much power here. I can almost guarantee she will do it!! I would never think to do that to her and I haven't because the kids are normally excited about planned vacations and outings and I never want to disappoint them.

I see my lawyer this week, so hopefully she can shed some light on this and what to do in the future when an "approved" request all of a sudden becomes "unapproved" just because she had a bad day or is pissed at me. No one can have this much power over your life...it's crazy!!
I suppose you can send one last email to her, stressing that the time to 'not approve' the arrangements for Mother's Day and Father's Day was BEFORE BOTH days. She agreed to it, she already benefited from Mother's Day, and to not continue to uphold her agreement now is negotiating in bad faith. Be sure to include a line about how unfortunate it is that she has proved herself to be unreasonable in negotiations, which you will now have to take into account when requesting your court order and when considering all future suggestions she makes to deviate from the court order. And maybe go get your summer vacation agreements in writing with a notarized signature at her expense ASAP, since emails from her are apparently not worth anything. And unfortunately, you probably have to start playing hardball. If she screws up your previously agreed-upon vacation plans, you have to mess with hers as well. Revert to whatever default schedule you have in place. Be sure to word it as "I see you do not want to honour our previous agreements regarding vacation times. I expect you to adhere to the regular schedule for the summer then." so it's clear that you are reacting to her actions, not initiating anything mean yourself.
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Old 06-03-2015, 04:09 PM
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At the risk of nitpicking and micro-managing: if you did send this email, I'd leave out statements like "... you want ..." or "... unreasonable...". You don't actually know what she wants, so attributing motives you can't observe is pointless. And "unreasonable" is in the eye of the beholder.

Stick with exactly what happened and what you are going to as a result: "We agreed by email on [date] to make the following change to the schedule: [change]. On [date] I received an email from you saying [quote her message]. I attempted to resolve the situation by proposing [what you suggested about picking up the kids from her]. Because you did not make the children available on Father's Day as per our agreement, I am no longer willing to entertain requests from you for alterations to the schedule. Going forward, I will follow the schedule exactly as written in our divorce order. Any future alterations to the schedule will take the form of a formal change to our order."
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Old 06-04-2015, 12:46 PM
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Wonderful! Just got a note that my lawyer is no longer with the firm. They have given my file which is over a year old to another lawyer who says she needs more time to review my file. which means SOL on the fathers day issue as I am sure by the time she gets to my file the day will be long gone.

I am extremely nervous about recieving a new lawyer. I've done so much work and have built a rapport with my lawyer and now poof! she's gone! She left the firm! They gave me the principal lawyer who is more expensive but will charge me the same rate...but will I get the same service if she's not actually getting the rate she normally does. I'm starting from scratch after a year long battle, Terrible news!
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