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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2016, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
A number of people have essentially told you that this is a bad idea. You seem intent on pursuing it. This leads me to conclude:
1 - you want to fight with your ex/her lawyer, and the reason for the fight is not particularly important.
2 - you are desperate to get the case adjourned or delayed. You believe this may be your ticket to do that.
To that list I would add:

3 - That you do not listen to anyone including your own lawyer's advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
The drawback to bringing this to a motion is the following:
1 - you come across as unreasonable at worst, incoherent at best. Why is this only an issue now? Why was this not dealt with earlier? Saying "my lawyer did nothing" is not a reason that will assist you.
I suspect this is the case and that this poster is obsessed with "tactics" over anything else. This tactic will not work and the true colour of "unreasonable" shines through on the most recent posts from Triton in my humble opinion.

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Originally Posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
2 - your ex's lawyer will beat you over the head with this issue and that will taint your arguments for the rest of the motion. You are letting them establish that you are a crank. Why would anyone listen to a crank?
Because for many highly conflicted people they are able to maintain their relationship to the other party in the matter through conflict.

Who Are High Conflict People? - High Conflict Institute

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HCPs seek Targets of Blame, because blaming others unconsciously helps them feel better about themselves. Blaming others also helps them unconsciously feel safer and stronger when they connect with other people. They’re constantly in distress and totally unaware of the negative, self-defeating effects of their own behavior. In a sense they are blind. Since HCPs can’t see the connection between their own behavior and their problems, their difficult behavior continues and their conflicts grow.
...

Quote:
Conflict is part of who they are. It’s a life-long personality pattern of thinking, feeling, and acting. Time after time, they avoid taking responsibility for their problems. Time after time, they argue against feedback, regardless of how helpful and truthful it may be.
Just saying... The pattern of behaviour is becoming quite evident in Triton's posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
There is something that you have not said (and therefore I conclude you do not believe): that your ex's lawyer actually has anything of value about your case. If you told the receptionist things that are now easily gleaned from the court record it does not prejudice your case.
To this point I will add that there is nothing "private" or "confidential" in a family law dispute. You are required to provide FULL AND FRANK financial disclosure in accordance with Rule 13. Rule 24 of the CLRA puts the best interests of the children before that of the parents and Rule 35.1 requires FULL AND FRANK disclosure of everything regarding you, anyone residing at your residence and the children and your plan for the children.

Family law leaves all parties in the matter NAKED to the reality of disclosure. To think anything is "confidential" in a Family Law matter is silly. I often pull records of past divorce cases for lawyers all the time when they exist for their clients. Why? Because as WorkingDad has demonstrated, you can use previous court proceedings to really demonstrate truthfulness of a witness.

If the matter is truly "confidential" then it is almost certain that the evidence is "irrelevant" and useless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
In reading only your side of the story on this issue, you are coming across badly. How much worse it can be if your ex throws her two cents in should be apparent to you.
To be frank. In the past few weeks Triton's true colours are coming through. I suspect it is one of a highly conflicted individual who has struggled with conflict for years. I do not think this pattern of behaviour is limited to Triton's family law matter.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Old 11-14-2016, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
To be frank. In the past few weeks Triton's true colours are coming through. I suspect it is one of a highly conflicted individual who has struggled with conflict for years. I do not think this pattern of behaviour is limited to Triton's family law matter.

Good Luck!
Tayken

It's simply the case of the custodial parent communicating in ways to create conflict - she realizes that conflict helps her case - she creates conflict for the sake of it. She's prone to good communication. Changes up visits and dictates access, holidays, all to her liking, send messages that "you need to give me the money or you don't get your holiday access" , chooses when to co-parent and when not to co-parent, takes christmas and new years all to her self - the police were involved initially when she changed up my visit that fell on Christmas eve - cancelled the one that fell on new years eve as well and then claims there is no cooperation or communication - appears the same to be happening this Christmas - I do hold the judge accountable for not punting in place a fixed Christmas schedule and I do hold the courts accountable for the matter dragging on and on and on , close to 2 years now for this proceeding. The initial proceeding was 2 years as well - mom will not consent or settle unless it is in her favor - she wants 100% daycare costs - that I will most certainly go to trial for - just as well as for joint and shared custody - I will spend every dime and nickel to my name fighting for my daughter - it is not a statement out of anger - it is a promise. She has every right to spend reasonable holiday time with me - that includes the right to enjoy Christmas and/or new years with dad.

any increased visitation that has been provided by mom has been so on the term that I would have to do ALL of the driving, the mom has her own car and can drive, which is what I have to take care of next, refuse to drive both ways and cut the leash placed around my neck by mom - that is what my therapist is finding anyways - that the mom has me under her thumb.

Last edited by trinton; 11-14-2016 at 05:47 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2016, 07:15 PM
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On thing you can do to perhaps help things is to have money paid through a maintenance enforcement (FRO/MEP). This way you don't have to discuss that with her at anytime. Money is separate from access.

The less you have to deal with her the better.

Also something that people have had good experience with in the past is mandatory using of software program such as "My Family Wizard" for communication between parents. Some people even have that a part of their court orders.

If you don't ask you don't get. If you didn't request specific schedule then judge can't be to blame for not providing one. Sometimes judges like to see how the two people work out their differences to determine the custody. If people are calling the police over Christmas/New Years' schedule then I don't think these two people are good candidates for close parenting regime?
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Old 11-14-2016, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by arabian View Post
On thing you can do to perhaps help things is to have money paid through a maintenance enforcement (FRO/MEP). This way you don't have to discuss that with her at anytime. Money is separate from access.

The less you have to deal with her the better.

Also something that people have had good experience with in the past is mandatory using of software program such as "My Family Wizard" for communication between parents. Some people even have that a part of their court orders.

If you don't ask you don't get. If you didn't request specific schedule then judge can't be to blame for not providing one. Sometimes judges like to see how the two people work out their differences to determine the custody. If people are calling the police over Christmas/New Years' schedule then I don't think these two people are good candidates for close parenting regime?
CHild support is being paid through FRO. Always has been. I have always consented to child support. These monies are regarding S7 Expenses. Court order also doesn't deal with S7 expense and mom wants me to pay 100%. Apparantly she get's to decide the percentages because she has "custody".

Your argument about judges leaving things out to see how parents will communicate with one another is a good point. Although there was a supervised access order mom and I were getting along very well - as soon as the final order was signed - see you later - follow your court papers - no holiday access - no Christmas - no nothing. Not even a phone call from child on father's day. On the other hand, if the communication was so good that we were expected to figure these things out among ourselves, then why was it not an order for joint custody ?

It is crystal clear that mom was denying my reasonable requests for holidays, etc and so recently (5 or 6 months ago) expanded my access outside of the court order (immediately After a conference) - which now contradicts her affidavit that "it is not in the child's best interest to have more time with the respondent"

regarding Christmas access, Basically I phoned the police and explained the situation and said I'm not sure what to do. They asked me to stay there so they could come and investigate. The cop said it's ridiculous to me how she won't let you take your kid for a couple of hours on Christmas.. but could not do anything unless the order mandated that he be involved. Mom has called police on me and made serious allegations and has tried to have me charged with Criminal Harassment, death threats, etc - charges have never been laid - so what I called the police one to avoid any trouble - who's there to say mom wouldn't have phoned the police and made other serious allegations then run to court again and cry victim of domestic violence

Last edited by trinton; 11-14-2016 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 11-14-2016, 08:07 PM
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So I guess that this is a lesson learned for you (nothing more nothing less). Even if you end up retaining the "best" lawyer it is ultimately your responsibility to review all the documents put in front of you to sign. Many people over the years have posted the agreement on this forum and have asked for people's input. Perhaps you will do the same before you sign "on the dotted line?"

You probably have to reflect on how best to "instruct" the lawyer that you retain in the future. In order to do this effectively you have to be extremely organized. By now you know what you want to have in a final agreement. Don't assume that a verbal, cordial meeting with a lawyer will accomplish this. Instead I'd recommend making a list of all of the items that you want to have put into place. Then go and have your lawyer review it and let them do their thing. Unless you want to go to trial (and have judge make decisions for you... which you may not like) you have to critically analyze your "haves" from your "willing to negotiates" items in your list. This is essentially what a lawyer will do, on your behalf, when relating to your ex's lawyer. In order to avoid any further disappointment and misunderstanding with your to-be-retained lawyer, I would recommend being very, very specific.

I would also recommend that you examine your expectations w.r.t. the lawyer you retain. It is essential that you discuss your expectations with the lawyer so that you are not, yet again, disappointed with the work the lawyer does for you.

Finally, you have to recognize that most people do not get 100% what they are seeking in family court. Being realistic in your expectations is important. I would therefore favor hiring a lawyer who can "rein me in" and who doesn't hesitate in telling me that I'm "out to lunch" w.r.t. to my expectations. I would favor this over having someone blow smoke up my ass. Always remember that lawyers are business people and, like any business person, they have an eye on the bottom line. If you cost them too much money (time spent with their receptionist... incessant repetitive phone calls) then don't expect them to classify you as their #1 star client. Good lawyers don't need to needlessly run up their bills by spending time sitting with you listening to your problems.

Organize, organize, organize. Make lists, lists and lists. Pare down those lists.

Discuss time-lines with your lawyer..... If we have a motion on XXX (date) when are we going to meet to go over final preparations.... will your assistant call me?... what do I have to have prepared for you... by what date?

Lawyer will gather relevant (and current) case law. Sure you can recommend some but you have to have confidence in the lawyer you are retaining to know what is the best case law for your situation. At one time my ex was self-represented and his idiot g/f dug up some "case law" which they put forward. It was hilarious as my lawyer ended up using their case law (against them). You are not a lawyer and do not understand how lawyers use case law. Most of us do not understand the intricacies of this. It is not as simple as you may think it is.

Once you have retained a lawyer I'd focus on your kid(s).

by the way... if you spend valuable time with your next lawyer, going over your perceived shortcomings of your old lawyer(s), you might find that that the newv lawyer is not very enthusiastic about taking you on as a client. Also, to do this is wasteful of lawyer's time and your money. It won't take a good lawyer too much time to sum you up and figure out if you are high-maintenance and if he can fit you into his already full, demanding schedule.

Last edited by arabian; 11-14-2016 at 08:21 PM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2016, 09:18 PM
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You are not a lawyer and do not understand how lawyers use case law. Most of us do not understand the intricacies of this. It is not as simple as you may think it is.
A common error is to try to cherry pick a case that fits the desired result. While sometimes this is obvious - "look at this 1992 case out of New Brunswick", said no Alberta lawyer ever - sometimes it is not.

CanLII helps with "citing up" a case. This allows you to review other cases that have cited the case you are ready. If other cases contradict your case (ie - "this was a bad decision") you may as well toss it.

A helpful start is on the key cases in your region. For example, the list in Ontario can be found here:
Family List of Cases | Superior Court of Justice
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