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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2014, 03:00 PM
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short story. Sep agreement filed, STBX says he makes 66k per year and usually makes an additional 40k in commission.

we settled for a few months at a lessor amount (jan, feb, march) of supports until he got his commission check.

2013 incomes are 110k for him and 40k for me (roughly, he won't give me taxes or won't have an NOA until end of juneish)

He now needs to pay more, and of course, is refusing.

since the agreement he has been promoted to Vice president, cries that his pay hasn't changed a drop. However, refuses to give me a copy of his employment contract. I strongly suspect he is hiding income.

can he be compelled to give me his current contract, including schedules as to how he's paid commission, last 3 months of paystubs? the agreement states he must give me his complete T1 including schedules by the end of April.

He states that the 2013 NOA will have no bearing on this years payment of support and that he will only pay what he has been paying (2k) period. Not a drop more. The agreement stipulates a call for a change if the incomes have changed. (they have) his 3 year average is 115k

sick of the games,,,
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Old 03-10-2014, 03:39 PM
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If you have been updating CS amount annually that is what you should continue to do. It all works out in the end.

Usually the way it works is from July-June CS payments are based on the previous years income. For example July 2013-June 2014, he should be paying on his 2012 income, then in July 2014, he would be paying on his 2013 income. This is the easiest way to do this. Like I said, it all works out in the end because if he is commission based, if he has a down year, he would still be paying on the prior years income. Unless you are going to update CS every paycheck he gets, you need to have a structured plan. You can't just change when it suits you. If he just got this position, it should not affect his CS obligations until next year. Unless his new position has come with a very large pay increase, it isn't worth your time/costs in court, because it will all work out in the end.

Your agreement states what he is to give you. Unless it says he has to provide his employment contract you are not entitled to that. It isn't the end of April yet, so he has not done anything wrong by not providing information.

Think about what you want to gain here...

Looking at the numbers, if he makes $110K and you are in Ontario, he is paying $2000 you must have 3 children, updating right now to $115 would put the CS obligations to $2080... that is only an extra $80 a month or $960 a year... it will most likely cost you more than that to go to court and try to argue why this is now a change in circumstances... $80 a month, in my opinion, is not a change in circumstances...
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:19 PM
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You are not entitled to his employment contract or other (likely confidential) similar documentation.

You are entitled to a copy of his T1 by the end of April so that C/S can be adjusted going forward from May 1. If he hasn't provided you with that yet he isn't offside. And considering I haven't done my taxes yet because I haven't received all my RSP statements from the banks, it is quite possible he can't prepare his either.

If April 30 comes and goes, and you don't get documentation, then you can send a formal request for the T1 per your order/agreement. If he does not comply, you can file a motion requesting disclosure of his T1 per the order/agreement.

The chances of you getting any documentation ie. work contract etc. as really slim as these are generally strictly confidential and if he was to disclose it to you without a court order requiring him to, he could be jeopardizing his job.
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Old 03-11-2014, 09:32 AM
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thanks so much folks. Lots of info here I'm not sharing, and the question is can I compel. I've found out from the lawyer, that, I could bring a motion for disclosure based on the facts that I'm omitting here. Their opinion it would be a slam dunk. But, like everything in front of a judge... could be risky.

Thanks again for the replies
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Old 03-11-2014, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotsofquestions View Post
thanks so much folks. Lots of info here I'm not sharing, and the question is can I compel. I've found out from the lawyer, that, I could bring a motion for disclosure based on the facts that I'm omitting here. Their opinion it would be a slam dunk. But, like everything in front of a judge... could be risky.

Thanks again for the replies
Lawayers make money from billing and many lawyers will tell you what you want to hear, if it means they will have an opportunity to bill more hours.

Would you win a motion to disclose an NOA, sure, that is a slam dunk. His employment contract? Highly unlikely. As has previously mentioned by others, that is a highly confidential document in most cases.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:04 AM
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ok.... I get the employment contract aspect. A letter, proof of income? The issue is that he has been promoted to Vice President. Then has the audacity to claim his income and pay plan has not changed one bit. Refuses to disclose. and the manner in which it was done (sends a copy of an old contract from 2011, detailing 2012 stuff, not signed by employer, not even on letter head, showing his income before he was promoted) is highly suspect. I am pretty sure his total comp package has changed substantially. Ie. stock options, dividends, pensions etc.

Not asking for the moon. but I'm certainly not going to just accept his "word" because he says so. He's been caught lying and deceiving far too often.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotsofquestions View Post
ok.... I get the employment contract aspect. A letter, proof of income? The issue is that he has been promoted to Vice President. Then has the audacity to claim his income and pay plan has not changed one bit. Refuses to disclose. and the manner in which it was done (sends a copy of an old contract from 2011, detailing 2012 stuff, not signed by employer, not even on letter head, showing his income before he was promoted) is highly suspect. I am pretty sure his total comp package has changed substantially. Ie. stock options, dividends, pensions etc.

Not asking for the moon. but I'm certainly not going to just accept his "word" because he says so. He's been caught lying and deceiving far too often.
If your SA agreement says you exchange NOAs in June, and has no provision for a "Material Change in Circumstance" then you wait till June. If your agreement says a material change in circumstances means a review, then you can invoke that. Your best bet would be asking for last three pay stubs.

Is he up to date in support payments? Is this for CS or SS or both?
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:24 AM
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it does have a material change provision, it does say review. I have asked for 3 pay stubs.

He is up to date currently. with a caveat. He was given a reduced cp/sp based on a mid point for his income (he had pissed away his bonus last year, and then cried poor) He started paying in December of 2013, He was given (in the agreement) lessor amount for Jan, Feb and March 2014. Pending the arrival of his 2013 bonus (he received same, over 43k last week) Starting in April, based on precedence, retroactive to January 2014, he should be paying in accordance with 2012 noa (his 108, mine 32) until his new NOA comes out in June, and then an adjustment can be made so that they are based June to June (someone up further had suggested I wanted a review by paycheck, which is ridiculous)

I am not asking for anything other than equalization, however, it is really hard to seek equalization, when people are not forthright about their income.

I will invoke the material change clause at the mediators, and once again ask for proper documentation in order to ascertain equalization.

thanks again for the calm dialogue
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotsofquestions View Post
it does have a material change provision, it does say review. I have asked for 3 pay stubs.

He is up to date currently. with a caveat. He was given a reduced cp/sp based on a mid point for his income (he had pissed away his bonus last year, and then cried poor) He started paying in December of 2013, He was given (in the agreement) lessor amount for Jan, Feb and March 2014. Pending the arrival of his 2013 bonus (he received same, over 43k last week) Starting in April, based on precedence, retroactive to January 2014, he should be paying in accordance with 2012 noa (his 108, mine 32) until his new NOA comes out in June, and then an adjustment can be made so that they are based June to June (someone up further had suggested I wanted a review by paycheck, which is ridiculous)

I am not asking for anything other than equalization, however, it is really hard to seek equalization, when people are not forthright about their income.

I will invoke the material change clause at the mediators, and once again ask for proper documentation in order to ascertain equalization.

thanks again for the calm dialogue
I tried myself to negotiate something in terms of my bonus, but in the end it was just easier to take an average of three years(for total income), then adjust yearly based on last year's NOA income. This means both parties being a bit flexible, but it works. To be brutally frank, I think your system is overly complex and bound to cause friction.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:09 AM
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LOL!! I agree wholeheartedly that it was unnecessarily complex for this year. I have sent a registered letter as of this am, invoking the material change clause, and asking for disclosure. I've also asked that we use the simple (even easier than the 3 year average, as he'd then have to pay even more its 115k) 2012 NOA for he and me until the NOA comes out end of JUNE and then we can use that NOA (2013) going forward until June 2015 (use the 2014 NOA) etc etc... simple and no friction.. tired of dealing with his crap actually. Just want to be paid, on time, fairly, and him to go away. He is so no longer important in my life.

I think the compelling the documentation question has been answered, and I've invoked the agreement. If he doesn't come through (he has 14 days to provide the info) I will bring a motion to have the agreement enforced.

thanks so much, this forum is such an amazing resource.
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