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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2017, 07:12 PM
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first of all why is the principal allowing a non custodial parent to change schools and enroll the child.

second of all why isn't cas telling mom to leave the home and telling you where they live so you can go and take your child. or apprehanding the child and giving her to you. perhaps they have no power to intervene.

so why don't you hire a private investigator to spy at the school to figure out where your kids live and why don't you file an emergency motion asking for police assistance clause? the police know where she lives, she's obviously burdened your child to take sides. mother is obviously not fit and in contempt of a court order. if I was the judge I would order supervised access to mom until child got re united with you as well as find the school board in contempt. but you need to plan plan plan and act fast. the longer this takes the greater the chance your child will be fully alienated.

Last edited by trinton; 05-03-2017 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 05-03-2017, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinton View Post
first of all why is the principal allowing a non custodial parent to change schools and enroll the child.

second of all why isn't cas telling mom to leave the home and telling you where they live so you can go and take your child. or apprehanding the child and giving her to you. perhaps they have no power to intervene.

so why don't you hire a private investigator to spy at the school to figure out where your kids live and why don't you file an emergency motion asking for police assistance clause? the police know where she lives, she's obviously burdened your child to take sides. mother is obviously not fit and in contempt of a court order. if I was the judge I would order supervised access to mom until child got re united with you as well as find the school board in contempt. but you need to plan plan plan and act fast. the longer this takes the greater the chance your child will be fully alienated.
I am unsure as to how the principal allowed her to be enrolled. I just know that she is enrolled.
CAS and police to not deem my ex's living arrangements to be dangerous for a child to be living there, and without court direction to apprehend our daughter they are unwilling to do anything except a "welfare" check.
None of this makes alot of sense, but I do remember the judge giving my ex a stern warning that it would not be advisable if she decided to not return our daughter. I am hoping because we are in front of the same judge that it will be helpful. I did apply for an emergency motion Monday and was unsuccessful, because Police and CAS did not deem our daughter to be in imminent danger.
As for hiring a private investigator, I would not really gain anything at this point from knowing exactly where she lives. Her withholding that info from me makes her essentially hiding.
Police spoke to me today, and oddly enough informed me that if I went to her school and picked our daughter up without moms consent, that there would be a very large police investigation into myself...
So I think it best to wait until the 9th and hope for the best. It is such a messed up situation in so many ways that a parent is allowed to basically go completely against a court order, change a kids schools and move a kid and nobody can do anything.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2017, 11:21 PM
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and what exactly would the police investigate you for? unabducting your child? I wonder if they would have any issue with a mother taking child back from school if dad took child against sole custody order.

however I think it's good on you for just sitting back patiently for next court date. good parents are patient.

let us know how next court date goes. I think the judge is going to throw her out of court.hopefully you habe a motion set returnable that date and not just a case conference.

Quote:
the Children’s Law Reform Act also provides that a court may give authority for law enforcement officers to locate, apprehend and deliver a child back to a custodial parent. This includes orders to enter and search in the appropriate circumstances. Further, the Act permits a court to authorize private persons such as private investigators and social workers to apprehend a child

Last edited by trinton; 05-03-2017 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 05-04-2017, 12:19 AM
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This is what's happening. The agencies that are supposed to protect children and follow careful guidelines (such as adhering to custody orders) have tossed you in to the steaming pile of high conflict parents who use them daily for insignificant, unsupported reasons. For one reaon or another, they're ignoring the law, something that may even bite them later.

God forbid something were to happen to your child under their care (did I hear needles in the freezer, etc?), they will be thoroughly investigated and I personally wouldn't stop suing their asses until I owned them.

When it happened to me I called the police first and same as you...no help (I didn't have custody order mind you .. wasn't even separated from my ex yet).

Next I called CAS .. no help. After that I attended an Emergency Motion .. and same as you .. kid was in no imminent danger and there was nothing I could do. So trust me when I tell you I know how you feel.

Do you have a police record? Any domestic calls between you and ex? DUI's? What does she think she has? I forgot if you mentioned .. has CAS made the visit to your home yet for an interview)

Quote:
Section 282

(1) [ Abduction in contravention of custody order ]

Every one who, being the parent, guardian or person having the lawful care or charge of a person under the age of fourteen years, takes, entices away, conceals, detains, receives or harbours that person, in contravention of the custody provisions of a custody order in relation to that person made by a court anywhere in Canada, with intent to deprive a parent or guardian, or any other person who has the lawful care or charge of that person, of the possession of that person is guilty of

(a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years, or
(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.

(2) [ Where no belief in validity of custody order ]

Where a count charges an offence under subsection (1) and the offence is not proven only because the accused did not believe that there was a valid custody order but the evidence does prove an offence under section 283, the accused may be convicted of an offence under section 283.
Sections 282 and 283 of the Criminal Code of Canada
What she has done is just plain illegal and it irks me that your child wasn't returned to you quickly and promptly.

She uprooted the child from school, peers, family and community and unilaterally started a new life for her .. without you. Another schemer playing the system. Now expect the delay game so she can claim "status quo". I'm still not sure why they even have abduction laws.

Get any doc's you can, including the one's that clear you from her allegations (I think she said you hit the child or something).

The child didn't want to go with police to come back to you ... that's a PRIME example of parental alienation. For all you know the child was told that you did something unthinkable or that you left them.

You want to bring every piece of evidence of you trying to get your child back. I even called Missing Kids Canada .. I e-mailed the gov't, I did everything possible short of just going and getting her.

Really, all you should need to do is show the judge your custody order, referring to the CLRA ... and outline how everybody here is basically in contempt and that something needs to be done immediately. These laws are here for a reason and a "good" judge will rectify this nonsense right away.

Regarding the school, follow Hammerdad's advice and go to the board. Your ex has poisoned them .. you're Tony Soprano to them right now. But a custody order is no joke, perhaps the school needs to be reminded of that.

Just go kick the abductor's ass in court and report back. I want to hear what happened.

You better not leave there without a clear cut enforcement clause to wake the police up.

Last edited by LovingFather32; 05-04-2017 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 05-04-2017, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireweb13 View Post
The principal at our daughters "burlington" school phoned the police about the matter, and they in turn phoned me to let me know that my daughter is safe, but they said that if I were to pick up our daughter from school that a larger police investigation would happen.
Invite the police to conduct a larger investigation. Also note to them that in accordance with 282.(1) of the CCC they need approval from the Attorney General for abduction charges and you have a court order to rely upon. Furthermore, you will bring the necessary complaints and lawsuits against them for improper procedure and practice. Advise them this is a civil matter and not a criminal one and one that was ordered by a sitting Superior Court Justice. Just make sure the court order in your possession is NOT a photocopy but, has the court house seal on it.

Do as Hammerdad suggests. Go way over the head of the principal. In fact, the registration without consent or a court order to a new school is against the Education Act. You can talk to an education officer directly about this situation (at the Ministry of Education). They will pull the child from the school so long as you have the appropriate court order and sanction the school. (Basically, they remove the payment they are getting for the child's enrollment at the school right out of their budget.)

If you have the order then, you have the right to follow the order. You need to bring a witness with you to the school. My recommendation would be to retain a private security service in full uniform with a camera to record everything. This sounds extreme but, when a school professional misbehaves like this you need to stand up to them. They are undereducated in the law. The security detail is simply to protect your rights and to be a professional witness at court or in a future lawsuit against the school. Most times they are off duty officers and are great at negotiation with the police. Most times they know the officer personally that comes to bother you.

Good Luck!
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:17 PM
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Update on yesterday.

On the weekend my ex emailed me to try and mediate out of court... I still had no idea where she was living with our daughter at this point.

Tuesday was a case conference. My ex asked to phone in because she lives 2 hours away. The judge, who has been sort of managing this case up until now had read my conference brief, and been in contact with childrens aid where my ex was living, that includes the CAS lawyer down there, and the worker assigned to the case. My ex was delayed in serving her brief, she emailed it to my lawyer moments before the conference started. The judge did not even read it at that point.
The judge started with " I am making one of 2 orders today, and that is up to my ex, first choice is that my ex can bring our daughter by 3 PM sharp to the CAS office and surrender our daughter over to them until I could arrive, and if she did not show up by 3 PM sharp the police would have an apprehension and search order and they would be advised that our daughter was in danger. If my ex did not choose this, the judge would have police notified right away to apprehend our daughter. She suggested that at CAS would be best so she could minimize trauma to our daughter, and maintain some dignity.
My ex continued to argue with the judge, for a significant about of time, but the judge understands and feels that she cannot trust anything my ex says at this point.
So the order was made at 1:30 PM, I was given a copy of the actual order, not just an endorsement and told to go directly to halton CAS. The judge also called the CAS lawyer to let them know to expect me.

I arrive at 3:30, no sign of my ex or our daughter. Ex does not return CAS phone calls. Ex sends my lawyer a txt msg to let her know she is running late, but does not say by how much. By 4:30 I contact the police, and they came to CAS to meet me. They said the order is crystal clear, and I provided them with all contact info. They then left to go searching. By 6 PM CAS office was closing so we went to a Tim Hortons at the direction of the Police. At 6:10 I get a call from a court services officer in Milton, they have detained my ex and were awaiting my ex's husband's arrival with our daughter. My ex had gone to Milton court to try and make an emergency motion on over and above the order to have our daughter returned to me. The milton judge contacted the Barrie judge, and they decided to hold my ex. Once our daughter arrived police took her and my ex to the Milton police station. Burlington police went to the Milton police station and picked up our daughter, and brought her back to me.
Tomorrow my lawyer and my ex are doing a quick conference with the Judge in Barrie through the phone, to discuss access.... I am thinking and hoping that at best she gets supervised access at least until the end of the school year.

Our daughter is adjusting well, she knows that she has people she can talk to if she needs, but that nobody will pry if she does not wish. Now we work on getting her adjusted into life here and see where it all goes from here.
Thank you all
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2017, 05:17 PM
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Oh, your poor daughter! I hope that wasn't too traumatic for her being driven around by police.

It must be so hard not to interrogate her about what was going on, where she was.

Lots of hugs tonight, I'm sure!
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Old 05-10-2017, 05:31 PM
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Agree with Rioe. Your daughter has been through the wringer. Hopefully the access is completely supervised and stays that way for a long time. Good work dad and yes lots of hugs are needed!!
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Old 05-10-2017, 06:43 PM
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I will be surprised if you come back to say any access was established at this point. Your daughter needs a break from her I think. Mom needs to get out of runwiththekid mode before there's any contact, and when there is it should be supervised.
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Old 05-10-2017, 07:01 PM
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We are lucky that she is adjusting well. I guess it was sort of good that they were residing in a hotel, not sure what one but our daughter says there was a pool, and they got to go to alot of restaurants. So I hope that the trauma was minimal, and more of a confusion thing to her.
The police who drove her back were very nice, she had to sit in the front seat as the back does not have a seatbelt. They joked around with her and made her feel at ease, and the older of the 2 officers reminded her that none of this is her fault. Our daughter gave him a big hug once she got out of the car.

I will know tomorrow what access will be, and will update you all on it.
Thank you for your support.
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