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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 10-02-2013, 05:27 PM
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Default Anybody ever used a lawyer off of justicenet.ca?

Wondering if anyone has had an experience with one of these lawyers offering reduced costs off of this site for those who don't qualify for legal aid?
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:44 PM
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I have not, however all of the lawyers are regular practicing lawyers that have volunteered to be listed by the service.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:24 PM
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I have. My current lawyer we found from JusticeNet.

I found that alot of the lawyers do not follow the fee schedule as shown on the website and if you call them on it they will tell you it is not mandatory. I called JusticeNet to complain and they said that it is madatory, they asked for the lawyers name and information. I got the feeling some big wigs just use it as another form of advertising.

I dont have experience with other lawyers but mine seems to lack luster (i just posted something about it)
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:59 PM
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Thank you for your insight and good luck in your matter. I worry with the whole you get what you pay for in life arguement. Really good lawyers with a lot of business because they are know or have been practicing a long time I don't see offering significantly reduced rates like here. But I had a lawyer tell in the other day that don't be surprised if my ex's lawyer will only be about $10,000 for a 5 day trial and some won't charge much leading up to trial. I found that hard to believe.
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Old 10-04-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DontGiveUp View Post
Wondering if anyone has had an experience with one of these lawyers offering reduced costs off of this site for those who don't qualify for legal aid?
I have mixed opinions on lawyers. In general all lawyers weather they are on JusticeNet, Legal Aid, big firm or private practice are governed by the Law Society of Upper Canada.

Suffice to say, there are some excellent lawyers on Justice Net who are not only experienced but, helpful and accommodating to their client's financial situation. There are probably some bad ones too.

As with any professional you should interview whom you are selecting. Cost shouldn't be the only reason you retain someone to represent you. There needs to be a good fit between client and solicitor. You can get the same advice from any lawyer and the price can range from $100 and hour to $600 an hour.

What is key to any legal matter is how YOU, the litigant, choose to act on the advice your lawyer gives you.

So, if your lawyer tells you the only way you can get what you want is if the other parent is "abusive" and that you need to produce evidence to the court that will get you "sole custody" and you actually follow that advice knowing the evidence is made up, false, distorted, half truths, etc... Then not only did your hire a negative advocate solicitor but, you yourself are to blame for what may come on in your case...

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Old 10-04-2013, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by DontGiveUp View Post
Thank you for your insight and good luck in your matter. I worry with the whole you get what you pay for in life arguement.
Somewhat true but, there are three types of "bad" lawyers:

1. Deceitful
2. Stupid
3. Deceitful with a stupid client

The most dangerous in my opinion is #2 because you never know what they are going to do next because well, it is just stupid. #1 is easier to deal with because the truisms to their patterns of behaviour are well known to lawyers and justices. Rare is #3 but, they are the ones that get caught... Because their clients are stupid.

Also, there are $600 lawyers with bulldog reputations and $600 an hour lawyers who are highly regarded and respected. Price does not mean "quality" per-say when retaining counsel.

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Originally Posted by DontGiveUp View Post
Really good lawyers with a lot of business because they are know or have been practicing a long time I don't see offering significantly reduced rates like here.
Or they are known to be negative advocate solicitors who will argue any stupid thing in court and drive the other party into the ground with nonsense. Some of the most expensive lawyers out there are zealous negative advocate laywers.

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But I had a lawyer tell in the other day that don't be surprised if my ex's lawyer will only be about $10,000 for a 5 day trial and some won't charge much leading up to trial. I found that hard to believe.
That number is low..

260 on average is what a lawyer charges per hour.

Trial is 5 days but, it takes about 2.5 days of prep per day of trial. So a 5 day trial is really 5 + (2.5 *5) = 17.5 days of billed hours.

7.5 hours in a day * 17.5 days = 131.25 hours.

131.25 (hours) * $260 + HST = $38,561.25

This doesn't include disbursements etc...

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Old 10-04-2013, 11:34 AM
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Thanks Tayken,

I don't have mixed opinions on lawyers, they are almost all crooks in my experience. The reason I ask am I am self represented, in the home stretch (TMC then purge and trial) and things are starting to get both scary and confusing, it feels like the system is against me and I am currently in financial duress, so I am looking for an inexpensive lawyer to take me the rest of the way on reduced retainer or someone with reduced unbundled services to give me the right legal direction / steps and help me with pre-trial and trial paperwork. I was directed to JusticeNet. Was just curious. Had someone say the court process and 5 day trial will cost my ex at least $70k then the OCL the other day tell me, she could be able to do it all for $10k?!
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:35 PM
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Thanks Tayken,

I don't have mixed opinions on lawyers, they are almost all crooks in my experience.
I disagree. Only about 10% of lawyers are negative advocates.

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Originally Posted by DontGiveUp View Post
The reason I ask am I am self represented, in the home stretch (TMC then purge and trial) and things are starting to get both scary and confusing,
This is because trials are VERY complex. I would not recommend, unless you are prepared to study just as much a lawyer had to in school to actually become a lawyer and pass the bar admissions, to retain a lawyer to represent you at trial.

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it feels like the system is against me and I am currently in financial duress,
"A litigant who is their own lawyer has a fool for a client."

"The system" is not against you. You lack understanding of the system. Don't blame the system for your failure to possibly understand it.

It is like expecting someone who has no training/understanding in/of plumbing to move some black water drains in a house. You could probably do it. Uou will have to read a lot, buy a bunch of new tools, try it out a few times, get some black water spilled on your shoes a few times and utter a lot of curse words before you actually understanding and can do the job.

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Originally Posted by DontGiveUp View Post
so I am looking for an inexpensive lawyer to take me the rest of the way on reduced retainer or someone with reduced unbundled services to give me the right legal direction / steps and help me with pre-trial and trial paperwork.
Even cheaper is a well written Offer to Settle served on the other party in accordance with Rule 18 of the Family Law Rules that could put all the nonsense to rest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontGiveUp View Post
I was directed to JusticeNet. Was just curious. Had someone say the court process and 5 day trial will cost my ex at least $70k then the OCL the other day tell me, she could be able to do it all for $10k?!
There is no fixed / flat fee rate for trails and legal matters such as these. Family Law trials are some of the most complex to deal with...

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:40 PM
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I would have to disagree with some of your points Tayken.

There are a number of Moms and Dads on this site who have self represented and been successful in court.

I have now presented my 3rd well written offer to settle, and my 4th is coming with my SC brief. They other party didn't even acknowledge the last 2 offers to settle and in their brief I just received, their "offer to settle" in the brief is "requesting the remainder of my case be thrown out". So no the advice you gave doesn't always apply or work.

The OCL lawyer told me myself there are plenty of lawyers in my region who for a $10k retainer would take over the case and take it through trial for that retainer/ So obviously there are some fixed fee lawyers out there.

Way more than 10% are crooked, lazy, or thieves. Maybe 10% aren't.

I understand some of what you say though.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by DontGiveUp View Post
I would have to disagree with some of your points Tayken.
I suggest you read my message threads on this site. You are more than welcome to disagree with me... Others have agreed and others have disagreed. Below are two examples of those who listen and those who didn't...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontGiveUp View Post
There are a number of Moms and Dads on this site who have self represented and been successful in court.
Actually there is only one confirmed one that has had some positive results...

CanLII - 2011 ONSC 7476 (CanLII)

There are also others whom have not...

CanLII - 2012 ONSC 3212 (CanLII)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontGiveUp View Post
I have now presented my 3rd well written offer to settle, and my 4th is coming with my SC brief. They other party didn't even acknowledge the last 2 offers to settle and in their brief I just received, their "offer to settle" in the brief is "requesting the remainder of my case be thrown out". So no the advice you gave doesn't always apply or work.
This is why you need a lawyer DontGiveUp. You clearly do not understand the concept of costs and how to leverage an Offer to Settle. An Offer to Settle's main purpose is to settle matters but, it is also a tool in determining costs after any step in the court proceedings. (Conference, motion, and trial.)

The other party is not obligated to not respond to your offers. But, it is always encouraged to make frequent and reasonable offers to settle. The other party is free to ignore your offers.

My concern about you, DontGiveUp, is that you seem annoyed by the non response of the other party. I wouldn't react to it. As someone who "doesn't give up" your persistence could make you appear to the court and OCL as "controlling". Be very mindful that persistence (not giving up) can be seen in a very negative light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontGiveUp View Post
The OCL lawyer told me myself there are plenty of lawyers in my region who for a $10k retainer would take over the case and take it through trial for that retainer/ So obviously there are some fixed fee lawyers out there.
Clearly you don't understand what a retainer is. In Canada... It is a deposit for services. The lawyer will then bill hourly to the retainer and once the 10,000 is burned will ask you to replenish the retainer. It is a way for lawyers to not do hours of work "for free". It is protection for the lawyer from doing 1000 hours of work and not getting paid.

I highly recommend you disregard the advertisements of Jim "The Hammer" Shapiro. The legal system in Canada (other than real estate) is not a flat fee service offering. Especially in family law.

I know of no lawyers in Ontario that will take a "flat" rate for a family law matter to trial. Not even the Legal Aid system in Ontario operates in that model that apparently someone from the OCL described to you. So, I encourage you to go beyond this message forum and call some actual lawyers to see what is possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontGiveUp View Post
Way more than 10% are crooked, lazy, or thieves. Maybe 10% aren't.
My opinion is derived from the professional opinion of Mr. William Eddy of the High Conflict Institute who himself is a lawyer and registered social worker. It is a generally accepted guestimate. You are more than welcome to disagree but, to describe someone as "crooked", "lazy" or a "thief" doesn't lend you much credibility on your opinions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontGiveUp View Post
I understand some of what you say though.
I recommend you try to understand more.

Good Luck!
Tayken

Last edited by Tayken; 10-04-2013 at 01:01 PM.
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