Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce & Family Law

Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2015, 12:28 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 19
bjm44 is on a distinguished road
Default Advise on Settlement offer

A rundown of the situation.

My ex and I separated in 2012. House was valued at 300k at separation, mortgage was at 256k when she left. I stayed in the house, paid all the bills and mortgage, taxes etc. House was vacant for 8 months before sale, all the time I paid everything as well. House sold for 335k. 90k in equity results. I borrowed the 5%down payment from a line of credit that I was and am solely responsible for and paid all interest on it. I agreed to 50/50 of equity split when she moved out minus my down payment and a roof repair. We verbally agreed I would pay her equity in 500/mth installments until paid in full(12500) or house sold. She changed her mind and then demanded 45000 despite contributing nothing from separation onward even when asked by me when the house was vacant. She has today lowered her offer to settle to 25000 but I am still feeling cheated by this. here is the breakdown.

Down payment 15150
roof repair 5250
Mortgage reduction after separation but before vacancy 21000
Mortgage reduction while house was vacant 4500
Taxes, insurance utilities maintenance while house was vacant 10000
Equity payments from initial agreement 2600

My ex and her lawyer feel she is entitled to half of the money that I reduced the principal by plus discounting what I already paid. They continuously delay by taking months to respond to my offers and requests. This latest offer was 5 months after trying to schedule questioning which has still not taken place. It has been almost 3 years now. I also reduced her debt by 15k during the relationship, 4k was student loans she had before me and I also gave her 5k in furniture that I paid for when she moved out. She does not acknowledge any of this despite my vast proof. My lawyer thinks I should take it but I don't feel she should get any more then 15k. Any thoughts or advise?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2015, 02:53 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 19
bjm44 is on a distinguished road
Default

Sorry, This should have been posted in the common law section.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2015, 07:55 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,049
Berner_Faith will become famous soon enough
Default

The house was valued at $300k and sold for $335... do you think she would have agreed to the original offer if she knew the house was worth 35k more? What if the house sold for $280k... you would be here wondering how to change your agreement because the house sold for less. Ask yourself the cost of going to court on this. Does keeping the extra $10000 get you any further when you will spend $15000-$20000 in court? V
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2015, 08:47 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 19
bjm44 is on a distinguished road
Default

Berner_Faith,

I did not change the agreement, she did. The house went up in value because 2 years had passed since the initial agreement. She went from want 12500 to 43000 to 45000 to 37000 to 35000 to now 25000. I left out most of these values as I did not feel they were pertinent. I am not sure what your comments mean as you really have no idea what I would be doing right now had the price gone down. I am a very fair person. I don't feel your assumptions of me are warranted as you have no idea of my character.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2015, 08:58 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,049
Berner_Faith will become famous soon enough
Default

I made no assumptions of your character, but you cannot sit there and say if value had dropped you would still uphold the same agreement.

She may not be entitled to the whole value of the increase however that's not up to you to decide so you basically have two options. Fight it out and court and blow $15000 or work with your ex and save yourself some money.

Why was the house not put on the market 3 years ago? This is what happens when equalization isn't done properly from the start. If you were living in the house she may have a chance to claim rent from you, which more often than not cancels out what she may have owed you for the mortgage.

Don't get defensive just because I didn't agree with you.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2015, 04:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,838
stripes is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjm44 View Post
A rundown of the situation.

My ex and I separated in 2012. House was valued at 300k at separation, mortgage was at 256k when she left. I stayed in the house, paid all the bills and mortgage, taxes etc. House was vacant for 8 months before sale, all the time I paid everything as well. House sold for 335k. 90k in equity results. I borrowed the 5%down payment from a line of credit that I was and am solely responsible for and paid all interest on it. I agreed to 50/50 of equity split when she moved out minus my down payment and a roof repair. We verbally agreed I would pay her equity in 500/mth installments until paid in full(12500) or house sold. She changed her mind and then demanded 45000 despite contributing nothing from separation onward even when asked by me when the house was vacant. She has today lowered her offer to settle to 25000 but I am still feeling cheated by this. here is the breakdown.

Down payment 15150
roof repair 5250
Mortgage reduction after separation but before vacancy 21000
Mortgage reduction while house was vacant 4500
Taxes, insurance utilities maintenance while house was vacant 10000
Equity payments from initial agreement 2600

My ex and her lawyer feel she is entitled to half of the money that I reduced the principal by plus discounting what I already paid. They continuously delay by taking months to respond to my offers and requests. This latest offer was 5 months after trying to schedule questioning which has still not taken place. It has been almost 3 years now. I also reduced her debt by 15k during the relationship, 4k was student loans she had before me and I also gave her 5k in furniture that I paid for when she moved out. She does not acknowledge any of this despite my vast proof. My lawyer thinks I should take it but I don't feel she should get any more then 15k. Any thoughts or advise?
Wording is crucial. What exactly does your agreement say about equity? Does it specify "equity as of separation date", or specify $12 500 as the amount to be paid to equalize the house? If so, the calculations are pretty simple.

However, if your agreement just says "equity", the calculations are also pretty simple, although not as favorable for you:

50% of equity = $45 000
Minus $15 150 (down payment) = $29 850
Minus $5 250 (roof repair = $24 600

^^^ This is what you agreed to, so her offer of $25 000 looks reasonable to me. Normally, your down payment and roof repairs wouldn't be excluded from equalization because they would be viewed as a contribution you made towards the marriage, and become part of the value of the house which is common property. The fact that your ex agreed to exclude these two costs is saving you money.

I would take this offer. I don't see where you have a case to pay less than $24 600, unless a lower amount is specified in your separation agreement. Going to court sounds risky because you aren't on firm ground here (and could end up spending most of whatever additional money a judge might award you in the court process). The details about student loans, furniture, etc aren't relevant to the agreement that you made about the house.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2015, 05:44 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 19
bjm44 is on a distinguished road
Default

Basically, my questions are am I entitled to the amount that I reduced the mortgage by after separation 256 to 230(25k)? Am i entitled to be reimbursed half the expenses i paid while the house was vacant(5k). 50% of equity was at separation and based on appraisal done at that time. 300k-down payment and roof repair/2 = 12500 My intention was to buy the house once I was able to do so as I had just become self employed and I needed 2 years to qualify. This is an alberta common law case as well. We were not married.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2015, 06:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,838
stripes is on a distinguished road
Default

I don't think you're entitled claim back the running costs of the house over the past three years ($10 000) as you presumably had the use of the house and your ex did not. So leave those out of your calculations.

I get different results using your numbers:

The equity at the time of separation was $300K - $256K = $44 K.

Minus down payment ($15 150) and roof repairs ($5 250) = $23 600

Half of that is what you owe your ex: $11 800 (you say you owe her $12 500 - not sure where that figure is coming from)

Your ex wants $25 000

The difference between $11 800 and $25 000 is $13 200.

Is that worth going to court over? I don't know. If I were in your shoes, I would try to understand where the $25 000 figure is coming from, and then negotiate a reduction.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2015, 07:28 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 19
bjm44 is on a distinguished road
Default

Stripes,

Your figure is correct about the initial agreement, I just rounded up. As for the 25 k, that is just the latest number they have thrown out. It was first 50%, then it was 37000 and now it is 25k. She wants occupational rent for the time I was living in the house. She made the occupational rent claim in november 2013 and I left the house January 2014 and it sold it august 2014. I paid about 55k in mortgage payments, taxes and insurance after separation. I lived in the house for 21 months after she left and it was vacant for 7. I also paid everything while vacant. How would rent be calculated here?
We did not have a written agreement that had all the terms but i did make payments to her and she did refer multiple times in email about our equity sharing agreement but she denies this also even though I have eveidence of it. She also denies that i paid her the 2600 even though i used cheques and memo equity payment 1,2....I feel she is being impossible but what do i know.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2015, 07:50 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,838
stripes is on a distinguished road
Default

It sounds like her numbers are pretty arbitrary, so why not make an equally arbitrary counteroffer of $20K in equalization to her, less the amount ($2 600?) that you have already paid? That's a good deal for her, and it's worth it to you to stay out of court.

In situations like yours, where one party is living in the house and paying the mortgage before it sells, many people just assume that the occupational rent owed by the party in the house is equal to the half of the mortgage payments owed by the other party, so the two cancel each other out. You don't owe her rent, she doesn't owe you mortgage payments. That's the simplest thing to do.

(Even if you weren't technically living in the house for several months, you still had the exclusive use of it, so you would owe occupational rent [and be responsible for all the running costs] for the months you weren't living there).
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anybody ever used a lawyer off of justicenet.ca? DontGiveUp Divorce & Family Law 18 06-06-2014 03:24 PM
counter offers ringettteplayer Divorce & Family Law 8 06-29-2013 01:15 AM
Stock Equity Pursuinghappiness Financial Issues 37 06-06-2013 01:02 PM
Motion to sell home & Offers to Settle Dee1973 Divorce & Family Law 8 04-08-2013 05:25 PM
Motion to change Nadia Divorce & Family Law 11 03-02-2013 10:28 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:04 AM.