Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce & Family Law

Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #41 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2017, 06:45 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,035
Berner_Faith will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimmanny View Post
And rockscan, I've never said I was right and you were wrong, I'm saying that every case is different and facts and evidence always matter. I've not once been arrogant about anything. I've only stated my experience and what I've read. I'm not stupid and I don't like people treating me as such. You already said it's a grey area which means: every case is different based on facts and what the parents can agree on.


Is your daughter staying with mom during school or residence? As pointed out already if she is living away CS is reduced, however if she is living with Mom CS is still payable because you won't be paying for housing costs at school. You either pay for residence at the school or you pay for residence at Mom's... you also only pay your share of post secondary expenses, which I believe would be your share of the 2/3 cost, since your daughter would be responsible for her 1/3.

If I remember correctly this is only a one year program? Seems to be a lot of court over 8 months of school?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2017, 07:18 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 33
Kimmanny is on a distinguished road
Default

She is living with her mom, but if her mom would agree with me paying half the education costs plus the 100 per month then I wouldn't have to pay the full Cs. Her mom just expects my daughter to pay all of her own and wants me to pay all of her living expenses which if I pay table amount would be way more than she would need. You would think that the amount my daughter makes now and the fact that she worked for a whole year before that, that it would count for something towards her support. And yes, by the time the motion is heard, she will likely already be done school, so it seems a waste of time. After that, my daughter would no longer be entitled, so I'm not sure how that works.
Reply With Quote
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2017, 11:50 AM
Rioe's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,217
Rioe will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimmanny View Post
She is living with her mom, but if her mom would agree with me paying half the education costs plus the 100 per month then I wouldn't have to pay the full Cs.
Obviously she isn't going to agree, and no amount of advice we can provide will be able to change that. Put not paying full CS out of your mind.

What is the difference in the two amounts anyway? You paying $100 a month instead of full table CS, and you paying 50% of total education costs, instead of your section7 % share of 2/3 of it? What exactly are you fighting over? If it's only a couple hundred dollars, it can hardly be worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimmanny View Post
Her mom just expects my daughter to pay all of her own and wants me to pay all of her living expenses which if I pay table amount would be way more than she would need.
So, the mother's scenario is
  • Daughter pays 100% of education costs
  • Mother provides the home to live in
  • Father pays table CS
Your scenario is
  • Daughter pays 50% of education costs
  • Father pays 50% of education costs and $100 a month towards living expenses
  • Mother provides the home to live in and pays the remainder of the living expenses
Legal precedent is generally
  • Daughter pays 33% of education costs
  • Father pays table CS and his s7ratio of 67% of education costs
  • Mother provides the home to live in and her s7ratio of 67% of education costs
So it sounds like the mother just wants the scenario that gets her the most money, and you want the scenario where you are willing to pay, as long as most of it goes directly to your daughter instead of her mother.

Also, there may be stuff going on that you are not aware of. I think you mentioned that the mother charged the daughter $200 a month while she was doing her working year? Is that continuing during her education year? That would certainly affect things. And what if you proposed $200 a month instead of sticking to $100, since they've set a precedent for that amount? Without knowing what your table CS is, it's hard for us to judge how reasonable your offer of $100 is.

Sit down with a calculator, and your knowledge of your income, the mother's income and the daughter's education expenses, and work out what each scenario would cost each person. Are the differences worth fighting over in court?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimmanny View Post
You would think that the amount my daughter makes now and the fact that she worked for a whole year before that, that it would count for something towards her support. And yes, by the time the motion is heard, she will likely already be done school, so it seems a waste of time. After that, my daughter would no longer be entitled, so I'm not sure how that works.
Think of your daughter's year of working as her covering her own living and discretionary expenses and saving for her future (as self-supporting, independent people do).

Now she is returning to the education phase of things, and is expected to devote the majority of her attention to that, instead of being self-supporting. Her parents are supposed to resume paying for her living expenses and help cover part of her education costs.

Honestly, I think you should sit down as a trio, since your daughter is an adult now and presumably understands money, and hash out an agreement that's a compromise between scenario one and two. THEN, if the mother is still inflexible, you can decide if going to court and getting scenario three imposed is worth it.

Does your ex understand that if she takes it to court to fight for that full CS, she'll very likely be on the hook for a portion of the tuition that she's evidently trying to avoid? You may be able to use that to pressure her.

I'd be tempted to just give all the money directly to the daughter, and let her and her mother fight over its distribution for living expenses. This is only because she's already had that year of no longer being a child of the marriage - I wouldn't recommend that for a kid going right to university from high school. Make it clear to all (in writing) that you consider this your supportive contribution to your adult daughter during this education phase of her life, to be spend how she feels is necessary for her needs, which may include paying some form of room and board to her mother. You are not willing to get into a large argument about the quanta of that room and board - it is between them.

That way, in case your ex gets a lawyer involved and you end up in court after all, you've at least got documentation and receipts for money you've paid, and a demonstration that you are willing to financially contribute to your daughter's education. It will be especially effective if it's an amount greater than your table CS and s7 share of tuition.
Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2017, 12:52 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 33
Kimmanny is on a distinguished road
Default

Sitting down as a trio is unlikely to ever be an option. My daughter doesn't want to hear a single word to do with court and she has never been the one asking for money. She gets angry with me for even mentioning it.

I don't think her mother realizes she would have to pay her portion of the education expenses though and she wouldn't know that she couldn't be forced to pay them. The last time we went to court she lost and paid a ton of money to costs having a lawyer. This time she is self represented.

Before all of this began, we had a written agreement that she would withdraw support and that I would pay for half of my daughter's dental expenses. We agreed that if there were any other expenses we could discuss it when they came up and not waste time with court applications. If she knew that my daughter was planning to start school she could have talked to me about it way before hand instead of sending me court papers after she had already started school and I knew nothing. She did not contact me once before hand to discuss anything.

I would love to pay any monies straight to my daughter if I could, even if it was full cs plus expenses. I just don't think that the ex deserves any money for herself if she wants to be selfish and not contribute to our daughter at all. I'm not sure if she's charging her room or board now though.
Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2017, 12:55 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 33
Kimmanny is on a distinguished road
Default

But what does a court do if the application is not heard until after my daughter is done school and is back to work full-time? At that point she would not be eligible for the support anymore under the FLA. (My ex and I were never married)

Also, her mother has a higher income than I do, so her share of education expenses would be higher than mine.
Reply With Quote
  #46 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2017, 03:30 PM
Rioe's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,217
Rioe will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimmanny View Post
But what does a court do if the application is not heard until after my daughter is done school and is back to work full-time? At that point she would not be eligible for the support anymore under the FLA. (My ex and I were never married)

Also, her mother has a higher income than I do, so her share of education expenses would be higher than mine.
If you know, or can guesstimate her income, do the math and see exactly what each of the three scenarios will amount to. You can't figure out what to do if you don't even know exactly what you are choosing between. The differences may not even be worth fighting over.

I don't know what a court would do, but I suspect it would be in your favour, if your income is lower. Remind your ex of the costs she had to pay last time you were in court, since she seems quite motivated by money, and the fact that she is likely to be ordered to pay a significant amount (more than a third) towards your daughter's education if it goes to court.

Then just pay your daughter some money and see where your ex takes it. If you end up in court, make sure you can demonstrate that you tried to negotiate and you did financially support your daughter, as well as the fact that you had an agreement to discuss things but your ex kept this whole education thing hidden from you.
Reply With Quote
  #47 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2017, 04:41 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 33
Kimmanny is on a distinguished road
Default

Another question: if a child was already approved and received osap that covered all her education expenses for the year, are the parents still expected to contribute? Like pay for part of her loan?

Oh, and she would not likely have gotten that loan if she had reported my income on the osap application. As far as I know, she did not.
Reply With Quote
  #48 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2017, 05:31 PM
Rioe's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,217
Rioe will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimmanny View Post
Another question: if a child was already approved and received osap that covered all her education expenses for the year, are the parents still expected to contribute? Like pay for part of her loan?
Yes. She's supposed to need as small a loan as possible. If she got the loan because one parent hadn't paid her their contribution yet, the loan should be partly paid off when that happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimmanny View Post
Oh, and she would not likely have gotten that loan if she had reported my income on the osap application. As far as I know, she did not.
Then it's either deliberate fraud, or she considered herself independent from you, due to no longer being a child of the marriage, and only put her mom's income on the form due to living with her. Maybe she really hadn't intended to tell you she had gone back to school at all, and it only came to light when her mom got the idea to get money again by claiming CS from you.

Are you trying to use this to avoid contributing after all? Why would you want her burdened with student debt when you're willing to pay for part of her education?
Reply With Quote
  #49 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2017, 05:44 PM
mcdreamy's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,410
mcdreamy is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimmanny View Post
Another question: if a child was already approved and received osap that covered all her education expenses for the year, are the parents still expected to contribute? Like pay for part of her loan?

Oh, and she would not likely have gotten that loan if she had reported my income on the osap application. As far as I know, she did not.
Students applying for OSAP are only allowed to use the income of the household in which they reside. --Yours would not and could not have been a factor.

And yes, you are still expected to contribute - judges don't want to see students going into debt, so that a parent can save a buck.
__________________
if you attack everyone involved, the common denominator is you. Attributed to OL
Reply With Quote
  #50 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2017, 06:15 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 33
Kimmanny is on a distinguished road
Default

No, I'm still offering her my share to pay her loan either way, even if I am not ordered to pay. I was asking because my ex may think that she doesn't have to contribute for this reason. If I'm planning to do more negotiations I need to know that she would still have to contribute. She won't want to, so if she thinks an order will require her to pay as well, then she might think twice about proceeding.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2-2-5-5 --> 50-50 Residential Schedule Explained Tayken Parenting Issues 27 11-04-2016 09:13 AM
Parenting Plan Format........... OntarioDaddyMan Parenting Issues 30 06-09-2014 09:55 AM
seeking advice... daddyT Parenting Issues 6 06-07-2013 04:41 AM
A week about is too long not to see your children Rhonda&Kids Parenting Issues 37 07-13-2010 01:55 PM
Divorcing Well SigRent Parenting Issues 2 05-06-2010 09:02 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:14 PM.