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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2013, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by FWB View Post
Ahahahahaha.....As Tayken will say "BAM"
Hi Friends With Benefits (FWB):

Contrary to your opinion I would not recommend a paternity test in many cases. In fact, if one is demanded and you fail the paternity test it can put you into a very negative light with the court.

It is not a 'bam' in my books as the relationship history the OP listed is consistent with him being the parent of the child in my reading. So asking for a paternity test could easily be used against him.

Unless it was a one night situation a paternity test can have a very native impact on a case at times. You are immediately bringing into light the morality of the other parent.

I would caution everyone on thinking that a paternity test and asking for one is a good thing all the time.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:17 PM
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The SS is irrelevant. You're going to pay child support (read: disguised child support) to here for the next 20+ years. Spousal support is small fries....

Child Support is where the money is at, she is cashing in. She can probably quit her job and live off you for the rest of her life!

"Child Support Recipient" should be a job title in the Canadian Job Classifications.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2014, 11:14 AM
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Child Support is where the money is at, she is cashing in. She can probably quit her job and live off you for the rest of her life!

"Child Support Recipient" should be a job title in the Canadian Job Classifications.
OP I would seriously disregard this users comments and here is why:

Your income at 185,000 and only have 30% access to the child would result in a full table amount of child support of $1,522 per month. On the set-off/off-set in accordance with Section 9 of the Federal Child Support Guidelines you would be paying $1,522 less $406.00 (mothers contribution) = $1116 per month.

http://www.mysupportcalculator.ca/

If you are making 185,000 it is safe to assume you live in Ontario and probably in southern Ontario and probably reside in either the Region of Peel, Halton Region, Toronto, etc... and that the cost of living would be significantly higher than what child support alone could support.

How much does it cost to rent an apartment in Ontario?

Toronto two bedroom apartment is 1,183 according to settlement.org. So, even if you are paying FULL TABLE child support that leaves the other parent a whopping $339 to actually live off of if unemployed. Also, I doubt that the 1,183 rental prices are in an area which is close to where you and the other parent probably reside in or would want to reside in...

No one can "quit their job and live off you" in most areas of Canada these days on child support alone. So for anyone to suggest otherwise only exposes their personal bias, frustration and personal issues...

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Old 01-01-2014, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
OP I would seriously disregard this users comments and here is why:

Your income at 185,000 and only have 30% access to the child would result in a full table amount of child support of $1,522 per month. On the set-off/off-set in accordance with Section 9 of the Federal Child Support Guidelines you would be paying $1,522 less $406.00 (mothers contribution) = $1116 per month.

http://www.mysupportcalculator.ca/

If you are making 185,000 it is safe to assume you live in Ontario and probably in southern Ontario and probably reside in either the Region of Peel, Halton Region, Toronto, etc... and that the cost of living would be significantly higher than what child support alone could support.

How much does it cost to rent an apartment in Ontario?

Toronto two bedroom apartment is 1,183 according to settlement.org. So, even if you are paying FULL TABLE child support that leaves the other parent a whopping $339 to actually live off of if unemployed. Also, I doubt that the 1,183 rental prices are in an area which is close to where you and the other parent probably reside in or would want to reside in...

No one can "quit their job and live off you" in most areas of Canada these days on child support alone. So for anyone to suggest otherwise only exposes their personal bias, frustration and personal issues...

Good Luck!
Tayken
My comment was tongue in cheek however it has some truth to it. Tayken is leaving out family benefits that come from the government. In Quebec, that amounts to about 1000$/month for 2 children. So lets make that calculation + 1000$ (different for Ontario?)
+ You pay special expenses (i.e: doesn't come out of her pocket)
+ Who says she has to live in the "expensive" part of the province. She can live far away from the city centers since she doesn't need to have a real job.

Don't let anybody convince you otherwise - CS is disguised SS and the reality is that your income is probably going to increase and that translates into more versacce purses and gucci watches for your ex (you have no say on what she spends the money on). I agree children need to be supported but when there are vast income differences the support just translates to money in the mother's pocket.

You are the payor in a welfare state of 2 and the decision maker doesn't care about you.

Also, there are grounds for SS even in short marriages with children when the mother has sole custody on the grounds that she is going to suffer FUTURE income losses.
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Old 01-01-2014, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
reality is that your income is probably going to increase and that translates into more versacce purses and gucci watches for your ex (you have no say on what she spends the money on)
What is this...the 90s? If at all the OP's EX adores being vain, then he can consider himself lucky that it isn't Coach Bags, Watches by: Philip Stein, Kate Spade NY, Marc Jacobs, and shoes by Jimmy Choo and Christian Louboutin instead i.e. consider yourself lucky

Quote:
If you are making 185,000 it is safe to assume you live in Ontario and probably in southern Ontario and probably reside in either the Region of Peel, Halton Region, Toronto, etc.
I don't think the 185k is specific to "Southern Ontario"...I personal know people that don't live in "Southern Ontario", that happen to earn over 185k

Quote:
Also, there are grounds for SS even in short marriages with children when the mother has sole custody on the grounds that she is going to suffer FUTURE income losses.
True....We know SS is determined under the federal Divorce Act, but it still behooves that spouse to prove entitlement under the "compensatory model", designed to compensate a spouse who has suffered economic disadvantages as a result of the marriage or has contributed to the economic advantage of the other spouse.

Interest quote from a related article on this forum

Quote:
Nowadays judges don't ask whether there is an entitlement to spousal support, this is assumed. The judges only ask "how much spousal support?"
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2014, 02:19 PM
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No one can "quit their job and live off you" in most areas of Canada these days on child support alone. So for anyone to suggest otherwise only exposes their personal bias, frustration and personal issues...
Well said.

A lot of the frustration you see from the bitter misogynists on here has to do with the fact that they used to financially control their exes and used money as a way to keep them subservient and under their thumb. When divorce happens, they can't control how their ex spends the money that they pay them for support. Add to that the fact that their exes are also living a liberated life, including dating, etc and their bitterness at their lack of control becomes almost psychotic.

They'll often start taking their hatred at their lack of control out on the kids.
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes View Post
Quick note about breastfeeding - be wary of saying "she can always pump". It doesn't always work that way - some women have no trouble pumping; for others it's physiologically impossible. There's also the issue that if the mother goes without nursing the child for more than a day, she may lose her milk supply. Doesn't always happen, but you should be aware of the possibility.
Stripes - Thank you for the feedback. I'm sorry that I didn't provide some background on the breastfeeding issue. Here are the facts:

- Mother was insistent on getting a pump prior to the birth of my son but needed a medical note to get it covered on benefits
- As soon as my son was born, she received the note and purchased a $325 Medela pump and worked with her mid-wife and a breastfeeding clinic to use the pump with success - both the automated and manual portion
- She was pumping daily as I would take my son every evening when I got home from work and would feed him a bottle at nights (I wanted the mother to get some sleep after a long day)
- She was also freezing bags of breast milk in anticipation of having a "night out"

Since leaving the house and taking my son, she now is insistent that it is impossible for her to pump as she develops blisters. This was not the case for the 1 month and 2 weeks she was in my home and I have 24 bags of frozen and dated breast milk in my freezer that proves this.

Funny note: I went with her to the pediatrician this week and the doctor asked if my son was taking formula. She said "no". He said, "you should start introducing it now". The look on her face was priceless.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2014, 07:37 PM
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@Involveddad75 your posts in this thread have been invaluable! I've started to put together Form 8 leveraging some of the language below. A couple quick questions:

1) You detailed the parenting schedule as 50/50 immediately. Should I include a ramp schedule moving to 50/50 after 18 months similar to what is in the OC Parenting Plan Guidelines?
2) Should I detail what skills I could teach my son as well as the reference to custody and access?
3) Do I make note of the breastfeeding claims and the restriction of access?

Thanks so much! If you do have any more language that you could share, I'd appreciate it.





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Originally Posted by involveddad75 View Post

CUSTODY
1. An order for joint custody
2. In the alternative if the justice deems joint custody to not be viable then an order for joint custody with a parallel parenting scheme.
a. The parents will communicate, and discuss taking each parents views as equal parents into account. Where an agreement can not be reached the applicant father has final say over education and the respondent mother has final say over medical.

3. In the alternative if the justice deems joint custody with a parallel parenting scheme not to be viable due to conflict then an order for sole custody of the child to the father.
RESIDENCE

4. An order that the primary residence of the child will be with the applicant father.

5. In the alternative that the primary residence of the child be with both parents and that neither shall move the child outside of the county/city of ______ without written consent or court order.

6. An order that the jurisdiction of the child will remain in __(enter town where you live___ or country.

ACCESS
7. A order the access be restored to equal shared parenting 50% with the father and 50% with the mother as has been the case between birth and the date of separation (give date).
8. An order for one of the following access schedules, which are consistent with the age and development and maturity of the child as set out in previous case-law and or by the Orange County of California Parenting Guidelines. (see attached)
a) Week about, week one with the applicant father, week two with the respondent mother.

b) Week about, with on 24 hour mid-week visit with the non-residential parent.

c) A 2-2-5-5 schedule such as
Mon Tues Wed Thur Fri Sat Sun Mon Tues Wed Thur Fri Sat Sun
Dad Dad Mom Mom Dad Dad Dad Dad Dad Mom Mom Mom Mom Mom
This schedule insures every Monday, and Tuesday the child is with their father and every Wednesday and Thursday the child is with their mother, this schedule allows the parents to sign the children up to activities during their days without effecting the access of the other parent.
d) A 2-2-3, 2-2-3 schedule such as
Mon Tues Wed Thur Fri Sat Sun Mon Tues Wed Thur Fri Sat Sun
Dad Dad Mom Mom Dad Dad Dad Mom Mom Dad Dad Mom Mom Mom

This schedule has the days of the week alternating, which means the child is away from either parent for a short amount of time, but parents must cooperate with respect to weekly activities.

These schedules ensure maximum contact with both parents as set out in section 16(10) of the divorce act as well ensures the child is not away from either parent for more than 5 days.

These schedules also are in line with the age and development of a child of 1+ years old as stated in the Orange County of California Parenting Guidelines. It is also in line with the Section 24 of Children Law Reform Act (Merits for Custody and Access).
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2014, 08:38 PM
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Focus on the child,
Focus on working with the other parent.
Focus on your story that you want to convey to the judge, and keep it simple

There is a reason you were having sex with this partner, they had to have some good qualities. Remember that when you are writing your court papers.

Don't accuse the other parent of doing things, it just proves to the judge that you can't foster a relationship between the other parent and the children.

I was once served 86 pages in 5 affidavits from 5 different people.
I had a friend / family read the affidavits and tell me the highlights before I read them. This took off the edge.

I then wrote 2 pages why I was an involved father. Then 1 page that dealt with all 86 pages of allegations. Then wrote 1 page of how it was my hope that after court was over my ex and I could work together.

This is the message you want to convey to the judge.

1. I'm ready willing and able to act as a full time parent.
2. I provide benefits to the child, but so does my ex.
3. I understand that we are going through court and that emotions are high, but I can see a time in the future where we as parents can work together productively to raise our children into productive members of society.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2014, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hova View Post
- Mother was insistent on getting a pump prior to the birth of my son but needed a medical note to get it covered on benefits
- As soon as my son was born, she received the note and purchased a $325 Medela pump and worked with her mid-wife and a breastfeeding clinic to use the pump with success - both the automated and manual portion
- She was pumping daily as I would take my son every evening when I got home from work and would feed him a bottle at nights (I wanted the mother to get some sleep after a long day)
- She was also freezing bags of breast milk in anticipation of having a "night out"

Since leaving the house and taking my son, she now is insistent that it is impossible for her to pump as she develops blisters. This was not the case for the 1 month and 2 weeks she was in my home and I have 24 bags of frozen and dated breast milk in my freezer that proves this.

Funny note: I went with her to the pediatrician this week and the doctor asked if my son was taking formula. She said "no". He said, "you should start introducing it now". The look on her face was priceless.
So you have a bunch of her breast milk stocked up? She has literally no excuse not to let you have overnight access right now. Next time she tries to deny you access based on the breastfeeding thing, assure her you will feed him the stored milk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hova View Post
the times she holds my son in her arms when I'm around and says "I'm sorry your daddy doesn't love you anymore or love us as a family", "your daddy destroyed us", etc.
Sounds like you're going to want a clause in your agreement that neither parent or family will denigrate the other parent in earshot of the child. Do you have any documentation of this behaviour? Wear a digital recorder to see if you can catch any of this in a format you can provide to a judge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hova View Post
Then there are the times I have to go over to her moms house to see my boy for the 1 hour allotted and I have to put up with them both chastising me during the entire visit.
Don't spend your visit at their house. Get a carseat, get a stroller, etc, and go somewhere else. The mall, a Timmie's, back to your home, to your mom's, anywhere but there. If you don't know how to put a baby in a carrier or stroller (because they haven't let you learn!), ask a friend or coworker with a baby to show you how they work ahead of time. If you don't know anyone with a baby of the right age, go to an Early Years centre or a Baby Talk drop in, and inquire. Take a parenting course, actually, that will be very beneficial since you have limited hands-on time, and show a judge how keen you are for parenting time.

They have no legal right to restrict you to one hour, but don't "ask" for more time. That just reinforces their attitude that they control the child's time. You have as much right to the child as they do.

Tell them you'll be back in three hours or something as you are leaving. If they argue about a feeding, tell them you have a bottle of her breast milk with you. If they argue about his nap time, tell them you look forward to seeing him drift off.

Note that this will ramp up the conflict, so you might want to have a mediation session first, so you can see just how willing to negotiate she might be before you take this warning shot. At the mediation session, you can express your desire for longer access and leaving their property, and entirely reasonable thing for a parent to want. Her arguing will only make her look unreasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hova View Post
She's now even sending me texts saying that I'm threatening and emotionally abusing her - based on a quick text I sent her to ask when she'd be able to remove her stuff from my house - so I imagine this is only going to get worse before it gets better.
Try switching to email communication only. This is the best kind of documentation of this behaviour that you can use in court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hova View Post
I think I will need to retain a lawyer even with mediation upcoming. Thank you all so much!
You WILL need a lawyer at some point in the process, so you may as well take the time now to find one you like before it become urgent. The mediator will probably ask for the name of your lawyer, too.
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