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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Correct me if I am wrong but, your husband acquiesced on CONSENT to a FINAL order at a conference (case, settlement and/or trial) to the OCL's recommendations and did not challenge the recommendations?
You are 100% right. Our lawyer advised us to, she said the judge would side with the OCL. We could not find another lawyer to hire, and literally stuck with this lawyer. We were in NB fighting this. The child is in ON.

We are financially not in a good spot, and could not afford to fly up for every court date. We tried to hire a lawyer here, but the lawyer here would have had to fly up as well.

We found out after the OCL made their recommendation, that the mother's live in bf was charged and plead guilty to possession of an illegal substance. We asked our lawyer repeatedly if this changed anything, no response, over and over.

At this point we don't know what to do, the mother would say a lot of things to the child and it would upset him. If I am on the phone with the child, the mother is in the background making comments to the child, calling him naive (because the child asked if we could get posted back and I said no). She went on to say I was lying. This was after the decision from the OCL. So do we put the child through this all over again? We don't know what to do. We don't want him going through more of this. It was very hard on him, his mother would tell him if he left she couldn't afford her apartment anymore because she would lose her cs. Pretty big weight to put on a child if you ask me.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 02:20 PM
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Something that employee ("infantry soldier") should be addressing in their career. Same impact someone in a "buggy whip" industry should be considering. Like all the printing press operators who were laid off when the internet hit and published materials declined.



Many private industry and other public working individuals have the same commitments. What about a manager whom agrees to complete an MBA and if they leave the company they have to pay back a portion of the education?



That is *life* not just "military life". Nothing you have described is "unique" to being in the military.

On average today in 2012 and going forward people often have to change careers. The "magical" world of one-job-one-career-for-life hasn't existing in society for quite some time now. Everyone should be working towards being able to adapt to change. Versus project blame that they can't change (careers, employment, update skills, etc...). Every human has the capability to "change".
Will post a reply with some documentation from studies to highlight the uniqueness of the CF's load on family life. That should be fairly easy once I get home. Note my example of the infanteer and also I want to address your comment of sustainable career.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 02:27 PM
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Will post a reply with some documentation from studies to highlight the uniqueness of the CF's load on family life. That should be fairly easy once I get home. Note my example of the infanteer and also I want to address your comment of sustainable career.
I wish we had a "like" button.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 02:28 PM
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Will post a reply with some documentation from studies to highlight the uniqueness of the CF's load on family life. That should be fairly easy once I get home. Note my example of the infanteer and also I want to address your comment of sustainable career.
Just be careful. As an enlisted member of the military you may be under obligation by contract not to make liable statements against the military and the positive opportunities it provides to families as a career. You wouldn't want to expose anything that puts the military and service in a bad light as an enlisted employee.

(Not being rude here or poking fun. Military contracts for employment under the terms of service are not a walk in the park to understand.)

You wouldn't want to post information in contravention to your terms of service agreement by which you suggest that military life is not supportive of a family needs. This could have an impact on anyone searching the internet for information about a "career" in the military negatively.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
You are 100% right. Our lawyer advised us to, she said the judge would side with the OCL. We could not find another lawyer to hire, and literally stuck with this lawyer. We were in NB fighting this. The child is in ON.
So you moved already. Unfortunate for the child in question. The establishment of status quo with the other parent was already established.

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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
We are financially not in a good spot, and could not afford to fly up for every court date. We tried to hire a lawyer here, but the lawyer here would have had to fly up as well.
Nor is any litigant generally before the Family Court system in any jurisdiction. Litigation does not lead to anyone becoming rich other than the professionals involved in the matter that people are battling out that they couldn't figure out themselves.

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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
We found out after the OCL made their recommendation, that the mother's live in bf was charged and plead guilty to possession of an illegal substance. We asked our lawyer repeatedly if this changed anything, no response, over and over.
Nothing. Nothing you could do. It isn't "evidence". Unless the person in question was injecting, blowing smoke, or forcing the child in question with the "illegal substance" it is irrelevant. The CAS and Police have to return hundreds of children a day to parents who live in known grow ops after they are all cleaned up.

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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
At this point we don't know what to do, the mother would say a lot of things to the child and it would upset him. If I am on the phone with the child, the mother is in the background making comments to the child, calling him naive (because the child asked if we could get posted back and I said no).
This is easy to deal with and falls under the concept of "parental anonymity". You basically need to get a third party (expert witness) to listen into the call and transcribe them (to text).

Also, remember *your* conversation to the child in question will be transcribed in full too. The expert witness should be unbiased.

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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
She went on to say I was lying. This was after the decision from the OCL. So do we put the child through this all over again? We don't know what to do.
No, you don't have to. Have a normal conversation, let the other parent demonstrate what you are stating to a expert witness who can transcribe the conduct and you present it to court and call the expert witness as a witness.

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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
We don't want him going through more of this.
But, if what you are stating is truthful regarding the violation of the father's parental anonymity during access calls it can easily be demonstrated. But, be forewarned a third party expert witness may tell you that you are hearing things, it isn't a problem and not a danger to the child and have nothing to proceed with before the court.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
Agreed, if it does not create a greater hardship for the family.

What you are saying is black and white because you are saying that if my husband's best interests were for his child, he would have quit his job and just got a new one. Simple as that, but it isn't that simple.
You are taking exceptional liberties with what I am thinking, stating and saying. This is known as "jumping to conclusions".

What I am stating is that a parent, independent of their life choices, should be willing and able to meet and exceed their commitments to their children's best interests if they want to be a custodial parent and have primary residency.

This includes proper career planning, adaptability to change, embracing change and actually changing. This is not quitting a job. This is called career planning.

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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
In one breathe you are saying it would be in the child's best interest to quit your job, and in the next you are saying I am jumping to conclusions (even though that is what you wrote). I find this confusing.
Where did I state he should "quit his job". I recommended a change in employment. This could be done through proper planning, education and re-training on the job while in the military. Done through the assitance of a scollarship. There are many positive ways to make a career change. It doesn't have to be as *you* state the black concept (which you have derived from my statements on your own accord) of "quitting a job".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
You are arguing, when you do not have a full understanding of the military, that we should just quit our jobs for the best interests of the child.
I know quite a lot about military service. Unfortunate you jump to conclusions again.

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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
Of course when we were posted we had 5 children to consider. So the decision to not quit our jobs was based on all of our circumstances, with consideration to our children.
Training? Military sells training and education as a major reason to join. Leverage the opportunity with your current employer. There are lots of great opportunities in the military but, one has to seek them just like at any other employer.

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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
We needed to financially support 5 children, we have stability, we have TWO medical/dental plans (something the biological mother has only ever provided for herself), so the child's best interests were put first, actually all of them.
Just not their habitual residential requirements in accordance with the CHildren's Law Reform Act when aligned to Rule 24 of the same Act. Which was identified by the OCL and agreed upon by consent to a FINAL order by the father and made into a legal court order to the fact.

Being a parent means sacrificing one's own "best interests" for the "best interests of the child".

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 03:08 PM
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Tayken,

We did move already, but the process started well before the move. It took an additional 11 months to receive the OCL's recommendations. The mother did a lot of stalling, wouldn't sign the OCL consent, then would, things like that. The military gives you a specific date to move, and you have 30 days (on either end) to ask to move it around. It is not always approved.

Financially I was only speaking from our perspective, of course we understand the only people making money off of family courts are the lawyers.

We now know the drug charge meant nothing, but it would have been nice to get a response from our lawyer, there were drug issues with his ex before. We were hoping this would further back this up. She was also charged with domestic abuse, we were hoping this would all speak for her character and the company she keeps.

Now, since we told the mother we tape the conversations she hasn't been saying anything bad. She will "hover" over the child and include herself into their conversation, but the negatives have stopped. Can my husband do anything about her hovering, or is that a to bad so sad situation?

Now, if we had of hired an expert witness, would we have had to tell her that we did, and that the conversation was being recorded?

We had no idea you could hire somebody to do this. We actually received a "warning" email from her lawyer (stating she could not advise us of the legality of taping the calls, we were just telling her, not asking the legality) when we advised her we were recording the calls.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 03:39 PM
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[QUOTE=Tayken;112916]You are taking exceptional liberties with what I am thinking, stating and saying. This is known as "jumping to conclusions".


I had to remove the rest of what you said because it won't let me post otherwise.

So you are right, there is "potential" to re-train in the military. A member has some options, if it is approved. In saying that, IF, it is approved, the member would then have to go re-train, and the odds in that person being able to stay home and do their training is very slim. Depending on the job they would re-train for, they could be away for 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, just depends on what they applied for. It isn't nearly as easy as you have made it sound. The military is cutting back, but you probably know that with your knowledge of the military. A lot of trades are "closed", that is actually how the military refers to it when a certain trade is not available to apply for, as there are no positions "open". My husband's job, which is not lining him up for civilian work, is also currently closed. Not a whole lot of choices right now, and actually for the past few years.

The training (that you are referring to), that the military promotes, is your initial training. Just like any employer, they don't like to pay twice. In the military they don't just "post" internal job listings.

When it comes to the decision not to release, because even if my husband changed trades (imagining it was that easy), he still would have had to leave the area and be separated from ALL of his children for an extended period of time. And then when his training was complete, guess what, A POSTING!! I'm sure you knew that though, since you know quite a lot about the military. So we are back at square one.

So there was a lot of factors included in our decision, and this was the best decision for our children on a whole. The decision was never going to be a winning one, but it was the BEST decision for our 5 children.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
Tayken,

We did move already, but the process started well before the move. It took an additional 11 months to receive the OCL's recommendations. The mother did a lot of stalling, wouldn't sign the OCL consent, then would, things like that. The military gives you a specific date to move, and you have 30 days (on either end) to ask to move it around. It is not always approved.
Delay, delay, delay, it is a legal strategy. If you document the delays and have a *good* lawyer, these issues can be addressed on motion and on costs requests. For the next time you have to deal with, set clear time lines, if they are not met, bring forward a motion rather than waiting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
Now, since we told the mother we tape the conversations she hasn't been saying anything bad. She will "hover" over the child and include herself into their conversation, but the negatives have stopped. Can my husband do anything about her hovering, or is that a to bad so sad situation?
Not much really. So long as she is not interupting the conversation verbally you really can't do much.

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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
Now, if we had of hired an expert witness, would we have had to tell her that we did, and that the conversation was being recorded?
If you are recording it serves the same purpose as you can turn over the recording to a transcription service and have it transcribed. No need for the expert. But, if the conduct is no longer continuing then, you have no grounds to complain about the conduct.

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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
We had no idea you could hire somebody to do this. We actually received a "warning" email from her lawyer (stating she could not advise us of the legality of taping the calls, we were just telling her, not asking the legality) when we advised her we were recording the calls.
You could also advise the lawyer back that the recordings are permissible under law, can be transcribed and if the conduct continues an expert third party with a mental health background will be retained to listen in and transcribe the calls. This expert would be called as a witness to provide an expert opinion on the conduct of the calls.

The warning is about the "admissibility" of the evidence. But, if transcribed properly it can be entered into a court record. The court won't sit there and listen to stuff but, if you transcribe verbatim what happened at what minute... The court will consider it. How the written came about isn't really the concern. You just use the recording to insure what you stated is fact. If challenged you have the recording should the court want to hear it.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
So you are right, there is "potential" to re-train in the military. A member has some options, if it is approved. In saying that, IF, it is approved, the member would then have to go re-train, and the odds in that person being able to stay home and do their training is very slim. Depending on the job they would re-train for, they could be away for 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, just depends on what they applied for. It isn't nearly as easy as you have made it sound.
It isn't easy with any employer. In fact, when compared to most private employers, the military has way more better training and acceptance of training. The average budget for a private employee is about 120$ a year in "training" in an HR budget. The top 30 companies that get listed is about $1200 per employee per year and that is one of the criteria to get that nice seal from MacLeans Magazine and other "ranking" systems for the "best employer".

Still doesn't mean they will let you spend the training dollars... or you will have the time to do it while employed either. No different than the military.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
The military is cutting back, but you probably know that with your knowledge of the military. A lot of trades are "closed", that is actually how the military refers to it when a certain trade is not available to apply for, as there are no positions "open". My husband's job, which is not lining him up for civilian work, is also currently closed. Not a whole lot of choices right now, and actually for the past few years.
Reflective of the reality that other private sector and public sector workers face every day. Look at what is happening with the teaching profession. There is no "safe" employment / employer any more in our society.

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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
The training (that you are referring to), that the military promotes, is your initial training. Just like any employer, they don't like to pay twice. In the military they don't just "post" internal job listings.
Private and most public sector industry expect you to come with your training (education) in hand prior to employment. So at least you get that opportunity in the military if you choose to do so when entering. I don't know of any other private or public sector industry with an "RMC-like" equivalent.

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Originally Posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
When it comes to the decision not to release, because even if my husband changed trades (imagining it was that easy), he still would have had to leave the area and be separated from ALL of his children for an extended period of time. And then when his training was complete, guess what, A POSTING!! I'm sure you knew that though, since you know quite a lot about the military. So we are back at square one.
No different than educating yourself for a specific field and then having to hunt for a "posting" on Workopolis.ca in the private and public sector. You may have spent years getting a degree and even post graduate studies to find out... Technology, a change in market or economy has basically wiped your career path out. Everyone whom is employed has to deal with this challenge.

In fact, it is different because only an enlisted person can apply to the "posting" and not a member of the public. When something goes up on Workopolis.ca you are competing against thousands of others. Generally when I post something with a head hunter these days for a position I get about 250-300 resumes.

You can't hide from the economy. It impacts all aspects of employment be it private, military, and public sector work. There is no "safe" job. In fact, one would argue that the military has one of the best pensions out there... Only second maybe to the teachers union. The vast majority of the population doesn't have this as a benefit to employment.
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