Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Domestic Violence

Domestic Violence Dealing with abuse and violence. Getting support and help.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #71 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2014, 02:02 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,563
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
I wasn't claiming the paper would stand up alone in trial but IF the writer was present and cross-examined it might (I wouldn't present this in court anyways)
What I am arguing is that the paper wouldn't even meet the first test of expert evidence and never even see the light of day. Even if you could call the "expert" as a witness to cross examine. You don't get to call any witness you want to the stand FYI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
Don't agree with other points, neither of the 2 links seemed applicable (I look at them)
They matter as you are presenting opinion evidence as a "fact". People are doing exactly what a justice will do. I am just providing you the information you may require to fully understand why...

If you don't understand this... You are going to really struggle in a court room.

Have you filed your Appeal already?

Good Luck!
Tayken
Reply With Quote
  #72 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2014, 02:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,702
DowntroddenDad will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
Finally a discussion the facts.

I am not even denying the bio-dad abuse risks, the paper talks about it.
All I AM saying is there IS A SIGNIFICANT increase in risk and a SIGNIFICANT amount of girls seem to be getting sexually abused. The step-father vs bio father seems to be 4 times (mentionned somewhere else in the study) but a sole custody father situation invites major risks too... thats why my first comment was HOW BLEAK.




I wasn't claiming the paper would stand up alone in trial but IF the writer was present and cross-examined it might (I wouldn't present this in court anyways)

Don't agree with other points, neither of the 2 links seemed applicable (I look at them)

It is "creepy" - I agree - its too stigmatized to discuss and it would reflect badly probably on me.
Even if I accept that paper, and I don't as I don't see statistical analysis, the one sentance that I bolded states that the risk is equal. That blows away your entire argument.

And Tayken is correct, any defense lawyer would find that and use it in court.
Reply With Quote
  #73 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2014, 02:36 PM
Hand of Justice
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: In the Shadows
Posts: 3,143
Links17 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
What I am arguing is that the paper wouldn't even meet the first test of expert evidence and never even see the light of day. Even if you could call the "expert" as a witness to cross examine. You don't get to call any witness you want to the stand FYI.
This is purely academic, but can you be more specific. The writer is a lawyer who perhaps specializes in the topic - doesn't that meet the requirement for expert witness?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
They matter as you are presenting opinion evidence as a "fact". People are doing exactly what a justice will do. I am just providing you the information you may require to fully understand why...
Opinion Evidence is something (according to the wikipedia article) that regualr witnesses do - its almost mutually exclusive to an expert witness. Once an expert witness is accepted as such they in fact seem to be "allowed" to provide opinion evidence (all this is based on the wikipedia article you linked)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
If you don't understand this... You are going to really struggle in a court room.

Have you filed your Appeal already?
I'm very stupid apparently, I make less than minimum wage and I work full-time .

Appeal is filed/accepting and awaiting the hearing and of May if they don't postpone....



Good Luck!
Tayken
Reply With Quote
  #74 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2014, 02:38 PM
Hand of Justice
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: In the Shadows
Posts: 3,143
Links17 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DowntroddenDad View Post
Even if I accept that paper, and I don't as I don't see statistical analysis, the one sentance that I bolded states that the risk is equal. That blows away your entire argument.

And Tayken is correct, any defense lawyer would find that and use it in court.
The paper is meta-study - it gathers MANY other studies together to produce a conclusion. Each of those papers individually do the statistical analysis (controls etc...)

Like I said, it seems the statistical evidence shows sole father custody does often result in sexual abuse as well (not at the the hands of the father though) but my refutation stands that step-fathers are 4x more likely.
Reply With Quote
  #75 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2014, 02:45 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,563
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
This is purely academic, but can you be more specific. The writer is a lawyer who perhaps specializes in the topic - doesn't that meet the requirement for expert witness?
The papers I provide are for informational purposes to help you come up with your own answers. If you don't agree. You are free to. They are not evidence or "proof" to anything. Only a learning aid to assist you and others.

You have to come to your own conclusions on the information presented in the paper on that author's opinion on "opinion evidence". I share a similar viewpoint as the authors because I have seen first-hand a number of hearings where litigants attempt to present "papers" such as what you are doing to support their "arguments" and FAIL.

The paper that I provided is, in my opinion, representative of how justices will view the "evidence" you are presenting. You can take it or leave it.

Your choice on what you do with the information... You are free to disregard it if you would like.

Good Luck!
Tayken

Last edited by Tayken; 03-20-2014 at 02:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #76 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2014, 02:47 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,563
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
Like I said, it seems the statistical evidence shows sole father custody does often result in sexual abuse as well (not at the the hands of the father though) but my refutation stands that step-fathers are 4x more likely.
The real question Links17 is why you need to convince anyone on this forum of your belief as stated above? Why even bother trying to convince a bunch of idiots on a public message form that your "refutation stands" and that "step-fathers are 4x more likely" to be horrible people?

As well you stated you wouldn't make this argument in your own matter so what purpose does this whole debate serve you? Or anyone for that matter?

Good Luck!
Tayken
Reply With Quote
  #77 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2014, 03:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,838
stripes is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
The paper is meta-study - it gathers MANY other studies together to produce a conclusion. Each of those papers individually do the statistical analysis (controls etc...)
It's not a meta-analysis. A meta-analysis aggregates comparable data from similar studies and runs statistical tests, it doesn't summarize a pile of different studies with different populations, methods and hypotheses. If you want to know what meta-analysis means, look up "Cochrane review" for the gold standard.

I read through the original paper and found a lot of cherry-picking. The only robust result I could identify, without tracking down each and every one of the cited studies, was that there appears to be a correlation of unspecified strength between experiencing a parental separation or divorce and an increased lifetime risk of sexual abuse. Correlation is not causation, and both risk of sexual abuse and risk of parental divorce may be influenced by other unobserved variables.

I definitely wouldn't use this paper to "prove" anything.
Reply With Quote
  #78 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2014, 04:27 PM
Hand of Justice
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: In the Shadows
Posts: 3,143
Links17 is on a distinguished road
Default

The request still stands, find another meta-analysis/study that is in significant contradiction to this one.
Reply With Quote
  #79 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2014, 04:31 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,702
DowntroddenDad will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
The request still stands, find another meta-analysis/study that is in significant contradiction to this one.
Sorry, Poli Sci major here, we don't need to do that. You made the claim, you have to find one that isn't flawed. Tayken's points on Meta analysis are dead on.
Reply With Quote
  #80 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2014, 10:52 PM
Hand of Justice
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: In the Shadows
Posts: 3,143
Links17 is on a distinguished road
Default

This seemed relevant
One way to end violence against women? Married dads. - The Washington Post
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Faulty to assume Shared Parenting: here's why SilverLining Divorce & Family Law 44 06-29-2014 02:41 PM
Step parents and permission forms / signing authority DontGiveUp Parenting Issues 77 10-09-2013 03:18 PM
Assuming is never a good option. SilverLining Political Issues 5 04-26-2009 11:30 AM
Opinion SilverLining Political Issues 0 04-25-2009 07:44 PM
Step Parents & Child Support? Markj Divorce & Family Law 2 12-09-2008 07:11 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:55 AM.