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-   -   Holiday Weekend Exchange and fear of abusive language (http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f12/holiday-weekend-exchange-fear-abusive-language-18145/)

MommyTime 10-10-2014 10:53 PM

Holiday Weekend Exchange and fear of abusive language
 
X wants a portion of the holiday weekend.

There is no stipulation or agreement on a holiday schedule, nor is there a court oder for a holiday schedule at this time. Moreover, X has rejected all holiday schedule proposals (50/50) in the last 6 months.

I have compromised and agreed to a portion of the weekend anyway, and for the children's best interests despite the fact the "regular" weekend" is assigned to me.

I have also requested a third-party pick-up based on history. There has only been one exchange between X and I, and it did not go well. X shouted and swore that was quite audible despite the double sets of doors between us.

We have met face-to-face once since without legal third parties in place, and it was brutal (similarly brutal with third parties present): X hovered over me, invaded my personal space, shouted at me, made allegations that were unfounded, caused legal discourse, and finally swore at me as I ended it and walked away from the heated situation. All this in front of an (insignificant) audience. A neighbour of mine caught up to me after witnessing it and asked about it.

For the holiday weekend pick-up, I obviously felt the need to once more request a third-party pick-up in an attempt to lessen the children's expose of undue distress (that X would have control over afterwards). X (again in "perfect writing") ensures there will be no trouble and that I am making a big deal out of nothing..

I've called police to seek advice. I've spoken to a counsellor through a hotline. I've emailed my lawyer. I've called Victim Services and left a message. I've called CAS and left a message. I've called friends and banged on my neighbours' doors to protect myself and to ensure the exchange goes smoothly (X will only behave when there is a noteworthy and beneficial audience, but that "should be" okay, right?, if the children will benefit from it?).

Over and over I have implored / begged for a third-party pick-up during the holiday weekend.. X is adamant that "X" will do the pick-up, despite the lack of cordiality in recent past.

I am concerned about the outcome for everyone involved. Help?

standing on the sidelines 10-10-2014 11:07 PM

how long ago was that last time when the exchange went badly? Was it in the earlier stages when tempers and emotions were still raw? Maybe he will be calmer now.

Best bet is do the exchange at the police station. Your ex wouldn't act up there. If not then once the kids are with him just walk away and ignore him. Don't react or give him the satisfaction of seeing you looking scared or anything.

MommyTime 10-10-2014 11:12 PM

The last time it went badly, face-to-face, was a month ago. We only correspond through a third party now, but X continues to suggest texting me directly as X sees fit is justifiable. I do not trust this. Not with the way the legal situation currently stands.

standing on the sidelines 10-10-2014 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MommyTime (Post 182854)
The last time it went badly, face-to-face, was a month ago. We only correspond through a third party now, but X continues to suggest texting me directly as X sees fit is justifiable. I do not trust this. Not with the way the legal situation currently stands.

then meet at police station, easiest way.

blinkandimgone 10-10-2014 11:28 PM

Or if he insists on picking up the kids himself, have someone else do the handoff for you. That way, he can't complain about not getting to pick them up himself, but you are protected and the kids are not exposed.

There is no need to tell him you will not be there, simply say your goodbyes with the kids before he arrives and run to the store for milk. That's all the kids need to know. Have your friend call or text you after he has left.

MommyTime 10-10-2014 11:32 PM

I am trying to find someone to be there but the holiday weekend and, obvious, short notice makes this problematic.. Police is willing to do the work but that will be my last resort if nothing else can be in place.

MommyTime 10-11-2014 01:16 AM

Here is the exchange [identities obscured in these brackets]:

X to me
Message:

What time Monday is convenient for you for me to pick up [children]?

ME
Message:

1) What time are the [children] generally picked up from daycare? By my understanding, it is usually around 6pm.

2) A third-party pick-up would be most suitable.

X to me
Message:

By this answer am I to conclude that you think you should have, in effect, the bulk of the holiday? This is not reasonable. I am happy to share the day but 6 is not reasonable.

I suggest noon as a reasonable compromise which will allow the [children] close to equal time with both of their families.

ME
Message:

1) The current order does not make any provision for holidays, nor has agreement been reached about a holiday schedule.

2) The initial question in this exchange was "what is convenient on Monday?" The response was in the form of another question to facilitate an appropriate exchange about plans that could possibly already be in place.

3) A reasonable compromise, as a "meeting at the middle" given this exchange, is Monday 3pm -- and most suitably by a third-party pickup.

X to me
Message:

My interest in this issue is ensuring the [children] have time with both of their families. It is my understanding that xx and yy are with you from noon on Sunday which is why I suggested noon on Monday. It is worth noting that this would still give more of the holiday to xx and yy

I am happy to split the difference and get the [children] at 1:30 which still is a far less than equal split of the holiday. Please have them ready at that time for pick up.

I will send you a text when we arrive.

ME
Message:

Communication shall remain through this medium until agreement can be reached otherwise, and by email for emergencies. [That is what has been recommended by various third parties].

A compromise has already been offered for 3pm, which allows "your family" an extended [holiday] dinner celebration on the official day (which by experience does not start until later).

There is no court order that has outlined any provision for such events, although a multitude of generous offers have been made to address this in the last 6 months.

The [children] will be in the lobby at 3pm on Monday shortly after we get back. Thanks.

X to me
Message
:
I would remind you that there is a Court Order that stipulates that I am the custodial parent. I have, in good faith, initiated this exchange so as to allow us to come to a reasonable and child focused resolution.

That said, I have no interest in squabbling over a few hours and as it appears you have plans I am happy to accommodate those.

ME
Message:

I suggested a reasonable compromise -- "the meeting at the middle" -- several posts ago given the current schedule, and as an extended response to your initial inquiry.

Other legal matters are best left out of e-conversation when appropriate representatives (that are available through various channels) are not present.

Kindly inform who the third party will be at Monday's 3pm exchange pick-up.

X to me
Message:

I will be picking up the [children].

ME
Message:

A third party would be more suitable given the incident on 04 September 2014..

X to me
Message:

On 4 September [with D4] there were no issues or concerns and the same situation will be true Monday. Should you feel the need to remain in the lobby that is your choice.

ME
Message:

I will likely be returning in company where a third party would be most suitable. Kindly consider the suggestion.

X to me
Message:

I have no idea what that meant. I will be there at 3.

ME
Message:

Once more, a third party would be most suitable. Being reasonably sensitive to this request would be best.

X to me
Message:

I will be picking up my children.

If there is something you wish to share prior to that then I invite you to do so.

I can see no reason for your request.

ME
Message:

Kindly consider the request.

X to me
Message:

Considered. Thank you. See you Monday.

ME
Message:

And the third party will be?

X to me
Message:

I will be picking up the [children] as I have said.

ME
Message:

You would, clearly, not be considered a third party as this is a reasonable request given recent history. There are more than [the children's] best interest[s] involved in this.

X to me
Message:

This exchange has gone in a circle.

I am confident we can execute an exchange as we have before.

There has never been an issue in the presence of our children and I have no reason to fear one. I will pick up our [children] and this is and should be the expected norm.

Thank you.

ME
Message:

1) There has only been one exchange between you and I that was tense and unnecessary verbiage was received. The children absorb this.

2) The last face-to-face was less than desired and hoped for.

3) A third-party exchange is most suitable given history, recent at that. Compliance here is key to a reasonable request in the children's best interests.

X to me
Message:

I will pick up our [children].

This is the normal we need to establish and their well being is served by seeing us do these exchanges in a civil way. I consider this exchange over.

ME
Message:

The well being of everyone is at stake, and little in recent history has provided such trustworthy assurance as those that have been suggested to me in this exchange.

Compromising the [children] -- or anyone else -- matters.

Kindly consider a third party for the pick-up on Monday at 3pm -- without police enforcement, security, or called-upon witnesses to be in place. How difficult need this be?

A third party will ensure the children do not absorb what would otherwise be unnecessary. Assurance a third-party will be in place would be graceful and appropriate.

X to me
Message:

This exchange has been unnecessary and is now over.

I will be there to pick up my children.

I will in all likelihood be accompanied.

Feel free to secure whatever support or witnesses you feel are needed.

ME
Message:

This could be easier than you project it will be.

X to me
Message:

It will be fine. A complete non-issue.

ME
Message:

One last time, a third-party would be best suited for everyone involved.

SadAndTired 10-11-2014 07:20 AM

It seems to me that you and your ex are in a pissing match. The entire text thread reads very high conflict (although politely worded). You are engaging with him far too much.

He would be an idiot to send you in writing (text) "Yes, I acted terribly on Sept 4 and therefore we do need a third party exchange." Why would he admit guilt in writing and why do you even need him to do that?

You have to focus on the goal that is your top priority. You want a conflict free exchange in front of the children, right? Isn't that the only thing that really matters on that day?

Instead of trying to convince him to send someone else (when you can't even do that yourself), figure out a solution. Pick a neutral, public place, set your cell phone to record the exchange and tell your ex you will be recording to ensure that everything is civil in front of the kids.

How old are the children? One of the texts talks about the lobby. Can you stay inside the lobby and just send them out as he pulls up?

I truly don't see it as his issue if YOU want a third party exchange. He just wants to pick up his kids himself. He is not insisting that you be there.

Try to put emotions aside (and it is really hard I know) and figure out a way to handle what you can control instead of trying to get him to do something differently.

The bickering back and forth by text isn't working and is making things worse IMO. You are setting yourself up for a conflicted exchange by insisting it is done your way.

Just focus on what you CAN do rather than the fact that he won't do what you tell him too.

mcdreamy 10-11-2014 07:39 AM

I agree with everything S&T just posted.

The above exchange is getting you nowhere fast.

MommyTime 10-11-2014 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SadAndTired (Post 182866)
It seems to me that you and your ex are in a pissing match. The entire text thread reads very high conflict (although politely worded).

The high conflict is the reason third party pick-ups have been recommended. It has yet to become court enforced.

Fear of safety is something X had claimed in court. Oddly, X seems to resist the same precautions once sought. I'm guessing it's because it has been found that the opposite is true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SadAndTired (Post 182866)
He would be an idiot to send you in writing (text) "Yes, I acted terribly on Sept 4 and therefore we do need a third party exchange." Why would he admit guilt in writing and why do you even need him to do that?

X acknowledged the incident in writing afterwards.

X's behaviour in front of the children is loud and tainted with a staged sense. There is nothing I can do about that. Shouting and demeaning me in front of the children, like before, has not occurred. Note there have been very few opportunities to be face-to-face since separation.

However, it's when the children are out of sight and earshot that is the problem. The last time, I had to walk away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SadAndTired (Post 182866)
How old are the children? One of the texts talks about the lobby. Can you stay inside the lobby and just send them out as he pulls up?

I am responsible to pass off the children who are too young to run out on their own.


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