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Domestic Violence Dealing with abuse and violence. Getting support and help.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2011, 09:13 PM
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I can understand you wanting to protec the kids. You said that when they dated before you had the police involved, can you do the same again? If you have witnessed the abuse you can report it to the police cas and whoever. If you take it to court you may end up spending lots of money and not getting what you want. It may end your relationship with your daughter and your grandkids. Look at the NCP who have a hard time getting access to their kids and they have more rights then grandparents. There are no qurantees and it can easily turn out bad.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2011, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Patty60 View Post
I am not sure which category, if any, this subject would fall under but I am at my wits end where to find help. We live in Toronto, but our grandchildren, age 4 and 2 years live in Aurora, the Judge Perkins courtroom jurisdiction.
Jurisdiction is set by where the children primarily reside. So, any motion you attempt to make will have to be in that jurisdiction.

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Originally Posted by Patty60 View Post
My daughter, age 38 is a Scientist in Math, has no alcohol or drug abuse problems.
Ok, your daughter is a grown woman, a professional obviously with a higher level education.

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Originally Posted by Patty60 View Post
Her husband died suddenly seven months ago, while they were separated.
Unfortunate for their children. It is difficult for children to grow up without either parents equally involved in their lives.

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Originally Posted by Patty60 View Post
She then hooked up with a former b/friend whom she dated at age 19. He was physically,verbally,emotionally abusive then. We had to have the police intervene.
This is quite the laundry list of allegations. Were there ever criminal charges and a conviction made against the ex-partner you claim to have done this? Why at 19 did you have to intervene in the matters?

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Originally Posted by Patty60 View Post
Fast forward 20 years and he is now living with her and her two kids. He is also just as abusive but she cannot seem to break away from him.
Generally there are unaddressed parental issues with victims who allow themselves to be abused. Did your daughter ever seek treatment for the past allegations of abuse you are claiming against her new partner?

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Originally Posted by Patty60 View Post
He is verbally and emotinally abusive to her 2 children.
What evidence do you have in support of this abuse? If there is indeed "emotional abuse", which is defined by roughly 30 items generally in psychology, especially to children you should be reporting this to the Children's Aid Society and not a website. Emotional abuse (better known as psychological abuse) is more dangerous than physical abuse in some cases.

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I raised these kids from birth, my husband financially supported them.
But, you are not the mother of the children nor have you been granted custodial rights over them. You just stated that your wife does not abuse substances and has a career in science (specifically math). Based on the ages given the children are 4 and 2 years of age. It is doubtful that you have "raised" them as they have significant more time to develop as humans.

It is wonderful that you have been there to support your daughter's children but, it is important to realize that they are not "your children". You can make a claim for access, or if the evidence is sufficient you can motion for custody of the children but, that would require intervention by CAS probably.

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The b/friend has isolated her and banned us from the apartment.
So your daughter and mother of the two children is not employed and does not leave their apartment? You have presented her as a educated person who has no addiction issues.

Has your daughter ever been diagnosed with a mental health condition at any time in her life?

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Originally Posted by Patty60 View Post
This is the 3rd time and usually happens when he wants us to fork over some money.
The best thing to do is to not provide the financial support. If what you are saying is true then you are only contributing to the problem not helping solve it by providing financial support. You are still your daughter's parent and at 38 you are not required by law to support her financial needs. I do realize you "worry" about your grandchildren but, should there be a true need or any risk you should be contacting CAS to have matters investigated by the proper authorities.

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Originally Posted by Patty60 View Post
These grandchildren are very close to us and per the Ontario law we have no rights whatsoever.
Well, this isn't entirely true. If you can provide cogent evidence of your involvment in the children's life and that you were indeed the primary care giver, as you state in your message, then you can file a motion for access to your grandchildren. It isn't impossible but, generally these kinds of battles only insight conflict and do not solve problems.

I highly recommend you read the book "It's All Your Fault" by William Eddy prior to making any motion in court for access to your daughter's children.

You are projecting a lot of blame and sighting some very strong emotional facts in your posting. You claim "these grandchildren" are very close to you. It is odd that you would refer to them in this manner. Are you not close to your other grandchildren?

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Originally Posted by Patty60 View Post
I want to hire an attorney to represent the children in their right to see their grandparents. I would like referrals please and tons of advice. thanks very much.
Advice:

1. You are going to need to retain a very experienced family law solicitor and you are going to have to convince them to take on your case. Solicitors who have this kind of experience balance their time between the hundreds of clients who contact them a week and often select the "interesting" cases with clients that can afford their services.

2. There is very little case law in support of your arugment but, there still is some. Judges do not take kindly to grandparents who sue for access. Generally this demonstrates a family in conflict and generally there is a history of conflict.

3. If you do proceed with litigating this matter expect every family secrete to appear before the court. Every detail you never wanted ever put into public record. Expect your daughter to reveal every little detail of any childhood abuse, argument and reason she does not want you near the children. If your daughter is indeed a victim of intimate partner abuse, expect false allegations against you and your husband. Expect your daughter's boyfriend, who has a past history with your family, to back up every allegation made against you as a negative advocate.

4. Expect every solicitor on the planet to come and sit in on your motion hearing as grandparents suing for custody is very rare. As soon as one solicitor who has a motion scheduled after your first appearance hears the motion being heard in public court expect everyone to know. These are rare cases before the court and they are watched by many.

5. Going to court is NOT a private matter. You are asking a public system to make a decision about something that you are unable to resolve privately. Anyone can walk into the court and obtain a copy of all the court documentation for your file. Many litigants do not realize this. I am emphasizing this because of the rarity of motions like you are suggesting before the family court system.

6. Research this before even contacting a solicitor. There are a lot of "bad" family law solicitors who will take on anything. You do not want to hire a negative advocate solicitor willing to take anything you say at face value. Hire a solicitor who is going to be honest with you. If you go to 10 solicitors and only 1 says they can help you... Really question yourself as to why only 1 out of 10 say you have any chance of success.

You may be disappointed, upset and frustrated with your daughter. Think long and hard about your relationship with her. Has it always been troubled? Think about how you may have contributed to the problem. The problem is generally not all one party in the litigation's fault.

Decisions in family law court are made on cogent evidence and not emotional reasoning. Learn the difference between facts and emotional facts. Make sure you are not allowing your emotions to overwhelm you. Court is not a fun place to resolve any family dispute.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2011, 06:25 AM
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We have just recently been to court to gain access also to our grandchild. We filed motion 14(?) to get onto the custody case to be able to get access. The judge dismissed it and suggested we work together to see the child. She did advise to file a motion 21 (? mixed up with all these motions that have gone through recently) and proceed if we wished. Counsel suggested to us it really wasn't worth the thousands of dollars we would spend since it would be unlikely a judge would rule in our favour. So, we left defeated.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2011, 10:57 AM
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I am not sure if one is allowed to state attorneys names here, but I think there is a PM function. Can you tell me the name of the attorney you used and the name of the judge. I am at the beginning of my struggle. Thanks for letting me know your situation.
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by selectivedi View Post
We have just recently been to court to gain access also to our grandchild. We filed motion 14(?) to get onto the custody case to be able to get access. The judge dismissed it and suggested we work together to see the child. She did advise to file a motion 21 (? mixed up with all these motions that have gone through recently) and proceed if we wished. Counsel suggested to us it really wasn't worth the thousands of dollars we would spend since it would be unlikely a judge would rule in our favour. So, we left defeated.
Family Therapy is usually a better way to solve these problems than court.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2011, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Patty60 View Post
I am not sure if one is allowed to state attorneys names here, but I think there is a PM function. Can you tell me the name of the attorney you used and the name of the judge. I am at the beginning of my struggle. Thanks for letting me know your situation.
1. You don't get to choose your judge. They are scheduled. So gambling you will get a sympathetic judge is risky business. Especially in a large court like the jurisdiction your motion will be heard at.

2. It sounds like from the other grandparent they were sent to a case conference prior to a motion hearing based on the response. This would be the first step after you file your application. At the case conference the judge will provide their perspective.

3. Once your case conference (or settlement conference) is completed you can proceed on a motion on the matter. Expect it to take a while for the motion to be heard.

4. Listen, like the other grandparent did, to what the judge had to say.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2011, 03:31 AM
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Tayken, my daughter had a fantastic upbringing. She once told me that I, her mother, was her role model and that she wanted a husband like her Dad. So I would say we did something right. We are not perfect but we sure did the best we could in all aspects. She wanted for nothing. She only told us, when she was 24 years old, that she had been bullied at school between the ages of about 10 to 14 years old. I dont know how I missed that at the time because was heavily involved in the PTA.I don'tknow if that has affected her now. We have absolutely no skeletons in our closet whatsoever. We very boring people, worked hard, saved money, no smoking, no drugs, no infidelity. There is not a single possible item that I care if the entire world knows about us. My daughter has been very close to us all throughout her life, BUT when this monster abuser is involved she becomes like a cult member under his influence. I will do whatever I have to, no matter the cost, to save daughter but moreover to save the two innocentvictims in all this, our only two small grandchildren. End of my story for this thread, it must be boring for others at this point.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2011, 06:35 AM
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I am wondering if the daughter starting to lead her own life had something to do with it??

How can someone not notice their child had been bullied for 4 years, but now see it with the new/old bf?? Easier to have someone to blame when daughter starts to live her own life.

Call CAS if you think the kids are in real danger and have proof.

No one has had a perfect upbringing, perfect life and raised their children perfectly. If that was the case then why did she go for this guy to begin with?? If the bullying was so bad that you think that is to blame then you should have noticed it. Maybe no so perfect??

Wonder if the daughter was on here what she would say?? That mom is too controlling or what??
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2011, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
Wonder if the daughter was on here what she would say?
Indeed.

Cheers!

Gary
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2011, 02:23 PM
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It seems that I have had a problem communicating my situation on this forum. so I am going to, for the last time, simplify matters.

1. We are not trailer trash and all that implies.
2. Have a very good relationship with daughter before she rekindled relatiosnhip with this jerk.
3. My daughter can live her own life, anytime, anywhere even with her abuser.
4. My grandchildren are vulnerable to his abuse. They have a very close relatiosnhip with us - the grandparents. We are their only protectors.
5. The CAS, a private corp, and other governmental organizations are useless.

Keep watch for new precedent setting judgements and opinions for access between grandparents/grandchildren.

Signing off.
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