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Domestic Violence Dealing with abuse and violence. Getting support and help.

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Old 11-09-2011, 09:09 AM
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Default Grandparents in Family Disputes

I am not sure which category, if any, this subject would fall under but I am at my wits end where to find help. We live in Toronto, but our grandchildren, age 4 and 2 years live in Aurora, the Judge Perkins courtroom jurisdiction. My daughter, age 38 is a Scientist in Math, has no alcohol or drug abuse problems. Her husband died suddenly seven months ago, while they were separated. She then hooked up with a former b/friend whom she dated at age 19. He was physically,verbally,emotionally abusive then. We had to have the police intervene. Fast forward 20 years and he is now living with her and her two kids. He is also just as abusive but she cannot seem to break away from him. He is verbally and emotinally abusive to her 2 children. I raised these kids from birth, my husband financially supported them. The b/friend has isolated her and banned us from the apartment.This is the 3rd time and usually happens when he wants us to fork over some money. These grandchildren are very close to us and per the Ontario law we have no rights whatsoever. I want to hire an attorney to represent the children in their right to see their grandparents. I would like referrals please and tons of advice. thanks very much.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:36 AM
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Grandparents do not have many "rights". If you feel the children are in harms way, you could call the CAS.

But I think the best thing to do will be to try and work on your relationship with your daughter and ignore the b/f situation. Just focus on her and the kids and pretend the don't bring up the b/f in conversation.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:05 AM
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I read your question and it is not my area but I could have bet the bank that you were wrong - court rulings are protecting the rights of grandparents as important social influences that greatly benefit the child. But it is important you find what these are. They can be basic or more???

Have you tried to contact the local courthouse in your area - there you can find the duty council (a lawyer who is there at certain times to answer specific questions)?

In plain words, I do not know how you came to such a strong conclusion to your having basically no rights that an Ontario grandparent may have but I must ask have you actually googled this on the internet? I only ask as I entered,

"ontario grandparents visitation rights"

and page after page of info came up - with a brief glance it appears that you do have at least some rights with respect to access. Perhaps your issue is what you want in terms of access and what you are actually permited?

Next in your instance the info you are asking is fairly straight forward from a legal standpoint I believe so I can only recommend you begin to learn trying to get your information from government websites. The next is if you google the ontario family law act R.S.O. 1990, c.F. 3 you will find the main document that spells out the rules for families and you need to find the section that specifically tells you about grandparents. There is also the Ontario Divorcce Act but I strongly think the first one is what you need.

So this is just one link's result after googling your question:

Do grandparents have visiting rights in Ontario Canada My grandsons parents who are not together will not let us see our grandson what are our rights?

Read more: Do grandparents have visiting rights in Ontario Canada My grandsons parents who are not together will not let us see our grandson what are our rights


In Ontario grandparents can fill out form 8 for access to grandkids as a 3rd party member. You must show the court that you had a previous bond and that the grandkids will suffer without you in their lives. You can find more information at 'Family Connections' on the world wide web located at kidsrights.ca.
There is a download-able form 8 on this site.

Read more: Do grandparents have visiting rights in Ontario Canada My grandsons parents who are not together will not let us see our grandson what are our rights

So good luck in your quest. Your grandkids are lucky to have people that love them enough to just not take no for an answer and walk away..... If you find you have more questions ask them here.

Last edited by ddol1; 11-09-2011 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddol1 View Post
I read your question and it is not my area but I could have bet the bank that you were wrong
I said "many" rights. They do have some, it is just how much money are you willing to spend and how long the process will take.
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Old 11-09-2011, 06:45 PM
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Hi HammerDad
Took me a bit to figure out - I did not see your post - I type slow!!! My response was just to the OP.

So the comment is not to dispute anything in either post aside from "I would have bet the bank that I do remember amongst all the reading in the last 4 months or so that the rights for grandparents were being solidified over time. Maybe 30 years ago they had none?? Today they have some rights and as far as cost. I never assume what another person considers as "cost". I am sure there are some that money is no objective when it comes to family - they will do everything they can to correct what they think is a wrong. It is thier choice and I would support somebody if they are making a choice that is right for them. I am getting far off topic but it is a good point to commend those who will do everything thier means will allow.
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Old 11-09-2011, 08:07 PM
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Default Grandparents in Family Disputes

Of course it was impossible for me to post my entire story. I have done extensive research concerning this subject of Ontario having no grandparents rights. I have also spoken to other grandparents who are in the same situation. I went to see an attorney at $600/per hour who wanted $7,000 retainer. However, he could only say that it’s likely we would get 2 x 2 hours per month, because most judges go with the Chapman v Chapman decision. I was not preared to fork out money for 4 hours a month. I have spoken to two MPPs who have for the past few years attempted to pass grandparents legislation. There are other Provinces that do have Grandparents rights however Ontario has tried numerous times but failed to amend the Children’s Act to include the word grandparent. Be that as it may, my grandchildren are very close to us but it’s the abusive boyfriend who is causing the problems primarily because he wants us to supplement their income. I did contact the CAS, they are useless and should be abandoned. Google the stories on the CAS. What I wanted was an attorney who thinks outside the box, and today I found one. It is the Children’s right to have the same relationship with us as they had before this abuser came into their home. I will not allow my two grandkids, through negligence and abuse, whether its emotional verbal or any other kind, to cause them to run away from home at 14years old, get pregnant and turn to drugs. That is not they way we raised our daughter, she is educated, no substance abuse but seems to lack common sense. It is not an option, and my daughter will need extensive therapy to learn how to choose a mate wisely once this has been resolved.
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Old 11-09-2011, 08:28 PM
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no amount of therapy will make someone fall in love with the "right person" Automatically you think her kids will run away from home, get knocked up and do drugs. You seem to be the type of person who is going to harp on her about her choice in man. If that is what you are doing then all you are making sure of is that she stays with him to prove you wrong. Believe me I am speaking from experience, my parents did that when i dated my first husband and i ended up marrying him to show them. If they would have left it alone i would not of moved out at 19 to go live with him.

All you can do is bite your tongue when it comes to the bf. It is her choice who she shares her bed with. You make a big deal of it then all you will do is make sure you will push her away forever.
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Old 11-09-2011, 08:50 PM
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Standing on the Sideline, I do not talk to her about her relationships at all. The therapy she needs is to be more selective in who she dates. She married a guy at 25 and we were very supportive.The wedding cost us $50,000. She moved to the USA because he is American. After 8 years he found a g/friend and left her. She had a few relationships after that which did not work. Then she moved to Florida, on her 3rd relatiosnhip in 3 months she met a guy, (con man, did not work, pathalogical liar, addicted to prescription pain pills). She was then 36 and after 4 years separated. she had two kids with him. Again made a mistake by giving her $2,000 per month to supplement r income. This husband overdosed seven months ago. She moved back to Toronto with her kids. She almost immediately went into a relationship with a former b/friend from 20 years ago, who abused her then and is abusing her now. I would say that she needs therapy especailly since the two kids see what is happening.
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:30 PM
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therapy will not help her choose the men she falls in love with. She has made mistakes, we all do. Obviously you are well to do financially or you would not be able to spend 50 grand on a wedding and give her 2 grand a month as extra income. The money doesnt give you the right to decide who she has in her life. You may not like the guy but it is her choice. Just be supportive of her (NOT FINANCIALLY) and if she turns her back on you just let her know that you will be there for her.

So the father of the kids is not the ex husband who overdosed? it was some guy she meant after separating?

Therapy is not the cure all for everything.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:05 PM
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The father of the kids is the husband, whom she was separated from, when he died, so technically she became a widow. The problem is not who she is dating. I want her to be happy and the kids to be happy. Its the fact that the current boyfriend abuses her. Emotionally, verbally, and physically. He caught her at a time when she was vulnerable during her separation. We did support her emotionally when they reunited and he told us that he was now grown up, had been to anger management clases and we (hubby and I) were happy that she seemed happy. I totally agree that she can have who she wants in her life, but I object to the two small children having no say to the abuse they are experiencing. They are vulnerable and need protection.
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