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Domestic Violence Dealing with abuse and violence. Getting support and help.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2014, 12:50 PM
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I know very little about this - but my instinct is that you need to document the dollars and cents that you spend because he was being a ^!%#!. How much did the CC cost you? How much did the lawyer's letters with offers to settle cost you? How much have you paid out of pocket to lawyers because he either wouldn't negotiate or wouldn't adhere to the agreements he signed? How much has it cost you to get to this point where you're going to court?

If you're seeking costs, I don't think the criminal record and documentation of him being an ass (the "why" of his behavior) really matters much. The question is "did you end up spending money which would not have been spent if he had negotiated and stuck with his agreement?". Stick with the "what happened" rather than "why it happened". Of course, I am a random stranger on the internet and may be completely wrong about this.
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Old 04-01-2014, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
Are you in Qc or Ontario?

I thought you were referring to the domestic abuse.
I have read cases where abusive conduct has entitled people to extended SS that even includes situations where the spouse was so broken up over the divorce they couldnt work due to depression....

Btw, very sorry to hear about the abuse, breaks my heart actually.
I'm in Quebec Links, so it's no fault divorce same as in Ontario. Concerning extended SS I am well beyond the rule of 65 as far as entitlement is concerned. My question was more about if the abuse conviction (restraining order) would have any bearing on costs of going to trial. A trial which I have done all I could to avoid.
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Old 04-01-2014, 02:02 PM
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The rules are pretty different....

In Quebec, the wealthier party will generally always pay the legal costs of the poorer party EVEN though there is no fault (i.e: unreasonable behaviour in settling etc....).

If one of the parties is being unreasonable that FURTHER encourages the payment (or non-payment) of costs.

Just the fact there is an income or asset disparity will entitle you to costs. The costs can be anything including experts. In Quebec this is called "Provision for Costs". The idea is that justice shouldn't be at the end of the dollar.
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Old 04-01-2014, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes View Post
I know very little about this - but my instinct is that you need to document the dollars and cents that you spend because he was being a ^!%#!. How much did the CC cost you? How much did the lawyer's letters with offers to settle cost you? How much have you paid out of pocket to lawyers because he either wouldn't negotiate or wouldn't adhere to the agreements he signed? How much has it cost you to get to this point where you're going to court?

If you're seeking costs, I don't think the criminal record and documentation of him being an ass (the "why" of his behavior) really matters much. The question is "did you end up spending money which would not have been spent if he had negotiated and stuck with his agreement?". Stick with the "what happened" rather than "why it happened". Of course, I am a random stranger on the internet and may be completely wrong about this.
Actually you make a very good point. I need to find some case law where the judge takes into account , not the fault; but the consequences of the fault ... in other words what it has cost me to deal with this unusual situation. Had the ex not been proven guilty of DV and not received an extended restraining order, there would have been mediation, negotiation and possibly early settlement. This is where I feel there has been a prejudice and extra costs involved.
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Old 04-01-2014, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
The rules are pretty different....

In Quebec, the wealthier party will generally always pay the legal costs of the poorer party EVEN though there is no fault (i.e: unreasonable behaviour in settling etc....).

If one of the parties is being unreasonable that FURTHER encourages the payment (or non-payment) of costs.

Just the fact there is an income or asset disparity will entitle you to costs. The costs can be anything including experts. In Quebec this is called "Provision for Costs". The idea is that justice shouldn't be at the end of the dollar.
I'm very relieved to hear that! very relieved. One less thing to worry about.
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Old 04-01-2014, 02:21 PM
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A few more points:
-It is the judge's discretion (same criteria a SS)
-It is for costs to be incurred (not already PAID)

IF you can easily pay your costs then maybe not

You can also ask for a global sum btw - a lump sum amount you might need to buy a new place to live or any other need....
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Old 04-01-2014, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
A few more points:
-It is the judge's discretion (same criteria a SS)
-It is for costs to be incurred (not already PAID)

IF you can easily pay your costs then maybe not

You can also ask for a global sum btw - a lump sum amount you might need to buy a new place to live or any other need....
^^^ Check this out very thoroughly - I would be very surprised if there is a presumption in favor of the party with higher income being responsible for costs, no matter how they were incurred. This is not consistent with the principle of awarding costs, which is to discourage frivolous or unnecessary legal action by either party. Awarding costs also has nothing to do with spousal support. I think Links17 may be confusing cost awards with some form of support awards.
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Old 04-01-2014, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes View Post
Awarding costs also has nothing to do with spousal support. I think Links17 may be confusing cost awards with some form of support awards.
It does in a way. Having no other option but to settle in court (how many days who knows?) this will impact his ability to pay SS, regardless of my need. Court costs will come out of the family patrimony, impoverishing us both in the end. So basically I'm paying the price for his criminal conviction and lack of good faith?

That's what's wrong with no fault divorce. Sorry if this is turning into a rant.
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Old 04-01-2014, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes View Post
^^^ Check this out very thoroughly - I would be very surprised if there is a presumption in favor of the party with higher income being responsible for costs, no matter how they were incurred.
Not what I said, what I said that is if both parties are considered to be generally reasonable the party with the higher income will help out with the legal costs of the poorer party. Assuming hte poorer party is stretched to make the payments and/or there is a huge disparity.

If the poor person is CLEARLY unreasonable and have judicial warfare then NO the court won't agree.



Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes View Post
This is not consistent with the principle of awarding costs, which is to discourage frivolous or unnecessary legal action by either party. Awarding costs also has nothing to do with spousal support. I think Links17 may be confusing cost awards with some form of support awards.
We're talking about Quebec in Janibel's case. Costs are almost never awarded in family law cases. It is called "provision for fees"...

It is similar to SS in that it is ALIMENTARY by nature and the means/needs of the parties are considered. I'm not confused.


Quote:
Court costs will come out of the family patrimony
-The patrimony is frozen at the time of separation.
-Yes, this is how lawyers and judges live and eat, somebody has to pay them.

Last edited by Links17; 04-01-2014 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:22 AM
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By the way were you injured in the assault and did you spend time in hospital, also were you able to fight him back by punching or scratching him or any other way?
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