Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Domestic Violence

Domestic Violence Dealing with abuse and violence. Getting support and help.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2012, 07:07 AM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,569
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
k obviously you are hinting at something, why not tell the whole story and hopefully get some straight answers? There are too many variables to even really give a guess.

It would all depend on how the bruising occurred. Was someone protecting themselves from an attack by the other person by grabbing their wrists causing the bruises? If so thats not DV that is self defence.
I again reference Shaw v. Shaw which is a highly sighted case by Judges, Solicitors and the Public Media:

Date: 2008-03-25
Docket: 34/08
Parallel citations: 62 RFL (6th) 100
URL: CanLII - 2008 ONCJ 130 (CanLII)
Citation: Shaw v. Shaw, 2008 ONCJ 130 (CanLII)

[4] Before I continue with the immediate family law narrative, I must make several observations on a continuing problem with how criminal procedures impact and pre-empt sound family law tenets.

[5] The events after the arrest of Ms. Shaw do not, in retrospect, show the police, the Crown, counsel or the criminal judicial system in a good light, although her story is commonplace. These events have become routine and predictable in almost every allegation of spousal assault such that there is presumably some policy guiding the police and the Crown attorney and forestalling professional discretion in all such matters, no matter how remote the assault may be in time or indeed how trivial the contact. Spouses of every walk of life and often with completely unblemished prior character are routinely detained for a formal bail hearing for such assaults. Invariably, the defendant (not yet convicted) is excluded from his or her home and prevented from exercising custody of or access to the defendant’s children without any consideration of the factors that this court must apply by law before determining incidents of custody or access. This is not for one moment to diminish the impact of spousal abuse on family members and children in Canada. Spousal assaults are by nature serious and there are very sound policy reasons to lay such charges and have them proceed through the judicial system to ultimate resolution if not diverted. I observe, however, that the damage of which I speak is not from the laying of the charge — this will happen in any event, regardless of the manner in which the defendant is brought before the court. The way that the criminal justice system approaches the commencement of these matters, however, often wreaks family law havoc with the family unit of the defendant and the complainant, and in particular the children of those parties. Family courts decide custody and access issues on the basis of statute and case law defining the best interests of the children. The criminal justice system pays no attention to such interests because it is not geared up to do so nor are the participants widely trained in how the actions of the system — from the officer who refuses to release the defendant at the station, to the duty counsel who allows the defendant to agree to inappropriate conditions of release out of expediency — effect the lives of the members of the defendant’s family. Similarly the Superior Court is tasked with the duty of adjudicating the respective rights of the parties to remain in the matrimonial home pending the resolution of the matrimonial litigation. Routine orders excluding a party from the common home of the parties until the end of the criminal matter without thought to the consequences thereof, and without a remedy short of a bail review, place one party in a position of immediate superiority over the other party for as long as it takes (perhaps a year) for defended criminal charges to be resolved. Such rote treatment of all matters of domestic assault can lead, on the one hand, to concocted or exaggerated claims of criminal behaviour or, on the other hand, to innocent defendants pleading guilty at an early stage out of expediency or a shared desire with the complainant to start to rehabilitate the family unit.

[6] Ms. Shaw’s case illustrates the dangers of speedy or discretionless criminal procedure.

[8] I do not know what advice Mr. Shaw received from the unnamed lawyer whom he consulted before, as he put it, asking for charges to be laid. I can only hope that no licensed lawyer in this province would have advised the father that the fastest way to get custody and exclusive possession of the family home was to report the mother’s transgressions to the police.

[9] I do not know with what police officers Mr. Shaw had contact at the Shelburne Police Service. I can only hope that the officers whom he saw there do not believe that complainants in criminal matters decide whether charges are, or are not, to be laid.
I highly recommend you read this decision in full May_May prior to doing anything and review this case law with your solicitor prior to contacting the police.

Good Luck!
Tayken
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2012, 10:04 AM
hadenough's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,468
hadenough is on a distinguished road
Default

Thank-you Tayken, for the "awareness" to all sides that you deliver to this forum by way of documented and factual information. Or.. as I think you have taught us all - the words (and how they relate to one another) "cogent, relevant, evidence." I recently used those exact words in an email correspondence in which I was requesting verification of something.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2012, 10:24 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kitchener Ontario
Posts: 5,242
standing on the sidelines is on a distinguished road
Default

Tayken are you suggesting that May May is thinking of using a questionable DV claim??
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2012, 03:38 PM
wretchedotis's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ON
Posts: 2,317
wretchedotis is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by May_May View Post
What about no fear, but a lot of bruising ?
The implication here is that someone laid their hands on you, and caused bruising.

Well, I would expect there to be some sort of 'fear' instilled as a result.
Unless it was consensual. Rough sex maybe? Did you cave and have a 'booty call'?

Other then something along those lines - how could one not become 'afraid' of the violence being projected by the other? Do you not 'fear' a repeat occurance? Even worse a repeat in front of the child(s)?

I can imagine that maybe you are trying to be a 'tough cookie' and say it didn't phase you and therefore you have no fear as a result. But I would think your just trying to show your bravado in saying there is no 'fear' resulting from the incident.

If that's the case - please stop trying to be the stone figure with no feelings on the subject.

I suspect you already know the answer to your question - as you are hesitant to proceed with filing a report before testing the waters here.

Do the right thing - whatever that may be. You already know what that is - don't you?
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2012, 03:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,448
Mess is a jewel in the roughMess is a jewel in the roughMess is a jewel in the roughMess is a jewel in the rough
Default

Personally I'm not affected by fear all that much, in some cases it's an advantage, in other cases it gets me into trouble. I've worked in some rough and tumble jobs like doorman at a bar, I also take a lot of chances doing things like downhill mountain biking. That shouldn't be held against me in court, charges should be laid according to the other person's behaviour and intent. If they intend to intimate me or injure me, it doesn't matter if I am a hard ass, they have still broken the law.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2012, 06:49 PM
hadenough's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,468
hadenough is on a distinguished road
Default

Frequently Asked Questions

^ Frequently Asked Questions - and the Mandate of The Halton Regional Police Services.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2012, 08:10 PM
May_May's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 519
May_May is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
I again reference Shaw v. Shaw which is a highly sighted case by Judges, Solicitors and the Public Media:

Date: 2008-03-25
Docket: 34/08
Parallel citations: 62 RFL (6th) 100
URL: CanLII - 2008 ONCJ 130 (CanLII)
Citation: Shaw v. Shaw, 2008 ONCJ 130 (CanLII)
Tayken ! Thank you again ! I will be bringing this to her this week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hadenough View Post
Thank-you Tayken, for the "awareness" to all sides that you deliver to this forum by way of documented and factual information. Or.. as I think you have taught us all - the words (and how they relate to one another) "cogent, relevant, evidence." I recently used those exact words in an email correspondence in which I was requesting verification of something.
HE-Thanks for the link, as well as this. Agreed completely...

[QUOTE=wretchedotis;94015]The implication here is that someone laid their hands on you, and caused bruising.

Well, I would expect there to be some sort of 'fear' instilled as a result.
Unless it was consensual. Rough sex maybe? Did you cave and have a 'booty call'?

Other then something along those lines - how could one not become 'afraid' of the violence being projected by the other? Do you not 'fear' a repeat occurance? Even worse a repeat in front of the child(s)?

I can imagine that maybe you are trying to be a 'tough cookie' and say it didn't phase you and therefore you have no fear as a result. But I would think your just trying to show your bravado in saying there is no 'fear' resulting from the incident.[\QUOTE]
WO-You are too funny. Bruising is all a matter of how it was attained ! ha. I haven't done anything because I do not think it's fair to our sons, that they would be impacted and not be able to see their father. I've had two incidents in two weeks, and the second was worse. Any 'intolerance' and 'violence' from my ex against me, has nothing to do with them. He has never harmed them. They love going to each house for the week, and I'm sure they would hate me if I took their dad away from them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Personally I'm not affected by fear all that much, in some cases it's an advantage, in other cases it gets me into trouble. I've worked in some rough and tumble jobs like doorman at a bar, I also take a lot of chances doing things like downhill mountain biking. That shouldn't be held against me in court, charges should be laid according to the other person's behaviour and intent. If they intend to intimate me or injure me, it doesn't matter if I am a hard ass, they have still broken the law.
Mess-Hard Ass, Booty Call, Bruising...Another week-end in the burbs !

SOS-No...The reverse.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2012, 10:38 PM
wretchedotis's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ON
Posts: 2,317
wretchedotis is on a distinguished road
Default

It's happened twice?

I encourage you to file a report.

Violence in any form is unacceptable, and often times escalates. By not doing anything about it you're telling him it's acceptable to you. And by that logic - it's ok if he uses a weapon next time (false logic - but so be it).

Your concerns are admirable - but I can tell you that it will only prevent him from seeing the kids if you persue that avenue.

I think it would be reasonable that he need have a third party present for exchanges, in order to prevent future occurances. But he won't have his access taken away as a result (unless you push for it through family court).

It would make things more difficult for him - but those would be consequences of his own making.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2012, 12:03 AM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,569
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

[QUOTE=May_May;94033]Tayken ! Thank you again ! I will be bringing this to her this week.


HE-Thanks for the link, as well as this. Agreed completely...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wretchedotis View Post
The implication here is that someone laid their hands on you, and caused bruising.

Well, I would expect there to be some sort of 'fear' instilled as a result.
Unless it was consensual. Rough sex maybe? Did you cave and have a 'booty call'?

Other then something along those lines - how could one not become 'afraid' of the violence being projected by the other? Do you not 'fear' a repeat occurance? Even worse a repeat in front of the child(s)?

I can imagine that maybe you are trying to be a 'tough cookie' and say it didn't phase you and therefore you have no fear as a result. But I would think your just trying to show your bravado in saying there is no 'fear' resulting from the incident.[\QUOTE]
WO-You are too funny. Bruising is all a matter of how it was attained ! ha. I haven't done anything because I do not think it's fair to our sons, that they would be impacted and not be able to see their father. I've had two incidents in two weeks, and the second was worse. Any 'intolerance' and 'violence' from my ex against me, has nothing to do with them. He has never harmed them. They love going to each house for the week, and I'm sure they would hate me if I took their dad away from them.


Mess-Hard Ass, Booty Call, Bruising...Another week-end in the burbs !

SOS-No...The reverse.
Your best best to avoid a problem is to avoid the person in question. Talk to your lawyer about changing the arrangements of pickup and drop off of the children. (Do it through the school? Daycare?)

Tensions run high in separation and divorce. You have to be very careful when you "break the seal" with the police. It can escalate conflict 1000x more especially if the DV allegation doesn't lead to a criminal conviction.

You seem to be thinking about it from a good perspective. My recommendation is to limit physical contact with the other parent. At minimum you should be bringing a non-biased third party with you.

You should be doing the exchanges in a public place (say MacDonalds) in FRONT of the sales counter where they have video cameras. Or somewhere else you know there is video monitoring by an independent third party and where there are lots of people around.

If you continue to do the exchanges at the other parent's home (or your home) it doesn't demonstrate you truly "fear" the other parent to a judge generally. Your lawyer should have hundreds of different recommendations to move the location to a location where *neither* parent has to fear the other. (remember an allegation of DV that is false is psychologically abusive and won't win you any favour with a family law judge)

Work towards reducing conflict and you will feel better as a parent and eventually as an ex-spouse. Your children will thank you for it in the long run too.

Good Luck!
Tayken
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2012, 04:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Somewhere Out There
Posts: 236
madm82 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I am petrified of my ex (my children are too). Even in my own backyard, I can not sit alone, that is how bad it is. Coming from my perspective (which I will tell you is now definitely biased), I would file a report with the police. These things can escalate and FAST! Then I try to look at it from a rational standpoint, and I'd say, the advice given of public encounters and third party witnesses are probably your best bet. Maybe these are just small isolated incidents that will never escalate and with always being in public, nothing to worry about, so why open that can of worms right. In my situation (and we haven't been together in years or seen eachother outside of court), public, had no effect on him. Even in the courthouse waiting room, he stood in front of me clenched his fists and gritted his teeth, if the police were not right there, I have no doubt in my mind his hands would have been around my throat once again.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CAS report & custody blinkandimgone Parenting Issues 11 01-19-2012 07:03 PM
OCL report compeleted - now what? lesteranne Divorce & Family Law 2 01-19-2012 02:17 PM
Challenging the OCL report WorkingDAD Divorce & Family Law 21 03-16-2011 11:04 AM
Childrens lawyer report fireweb13 Divorce & Family Law 0 02-24-2011 12:57 PM
Question about a "Custody and Access" Report katay Divorce & Family Law 5 03-22-2009 04:32 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:09 AM.