Want to help him

[brotherinneed]

I'm hoping some of you can suggest a few things to do in this case. My brother was in a 7 1/2 yr relationship with a women whom we all thought was the one for him...however here I am looking for some answers. my brother bought his home while they were dating. She moved in with him a year later. She worked, but did not contribute to the mortgage or monthly utilities. She bought flowers in the spring for the gardens and took care of her car/insurance and bought groceries for the fridge. my brother has a child from a previous relationship and pays child support. He also has visitation every other weekend and a month in the summer. the girlfriend started a conversation about 1 yr after she moved in about what happens to the house if he were to die. He told her and has always made it clear to everyone that the home would be trusted to his child, but that she(girlfriend) would not have to move out right away, but ultimatley the home would belong to the child. I think thats when the problems started. She has complained a few times to me about how its all about the child, and never about her. The girlfriend has always said that she would never/could never slap my brother with a law suit if they broke up. Well here it is, last week he received a letter from her lawyer asking for property division and spousal support. I dont understand, she always worked, kept herself dressed nicely, paid for her car/insurance and upkeep of it, bought her own personal effects, and now she wants support!? I have been reading some of the posts, and now Im really not sure what to tell him. The whole family thought that she was contributing to the financials not just buying flowers and putting food in the fridge. My brother isn't broke, but with the child support that he pays, he is on the edge and cant afford a lawyer. The letter even asked for his T-4's for the last 3 yrs. Does he have to give them out??
Hoping some of you can shed some light on this and point him in the right direction. He is just blown away by all of this.

[Mooview]

Tell him NOT to leave that house no matter what.
Yes he has to give his financials for the last three years and so does she...
Unfortunately, I'll tell you this....he really really needs legal assistance....Go to the court house or look on line for a "Family Law Office" in or near your town. There is not a lot of help out there and what is out there sucks if you ask me and the legal system is skewed to those who have lawyers and those who don't......and I'm a woman. I was in court last week and represented myself...was not allowed to speak only his lawyer and was told to get a lawyer by the judge, already had a lawyer that I fired because she did nothing and it cost my parents $8000.00 which I owe.....judge admitted to not reading the original file and briefly skimming the Conference Brief..............hahahahahah what a joke. I spent weeks of sleepless nights and typing and printing and filing papers with the court that no one read. GREAT !!!!!! I do not qualify for Legal aid because I make $444 a month on EI and his nominal support of $600. dollars...nice eh!!! Married 22 years...2 children..he has them and I left the house but if I'd have claimed abuse I'd be better off. I still have no separation agreement after all this....
I found a lot of useful information on these sites but you have to read & read & read.....
www.canadiandivorcelaws.com
www.delaneys.ca/spousalsupportwithkids.html
www.familylawcentre.com
www.ontariocourts.on.ca/en
www.ontariodivorces.com
www.lawhelpontario.org
www.ontariocourtforms.on.ca
www.canadiandivorcelaws.com

I hope some of this helps him.....I wish you luck and hope you stick with him....he's in for a hell of a ride....

[Mess]

They were not married, they were common law?

She has no claim on the house, period. However she will try and bully your brother and threaten a lawsuit etc. If she did not contribute financially, she has no claim. She can't just go to court and say things, she needs proof, she needs to show things like receipts and cancelled cheques etc.

She has no claim on any of his other assets or property, with the exception of any joint accounts they held.

Your statement that he always intended the house for his child is relevent, he said this to you, her, other family etc. She therefore cannot make a claim for a constructive or resulting trust, she made no investment and he made no promises. She will claim otherwise but she has to be able to prove it.

The question of support, you don't provide enough information. How much does your brother earn in proportion to her? It sounds from your description that he earns no more than her, but it is hard to tell. Also, he is legally responsible for the support payments to his child, so this amount has to take priority, in other words he should insist any claim for support be calculated after child support is subtracted from his income.

At this point she is just bullying him. Here is the thing: On the surface, based on what you describe, she has no claim to the house or for child support. Of course she has found a lawyer who will write letters, this means nothing.

Your brother is under no obligation at this point to turn over any financial information, and even if so, T4's are not what he should turn over. If she tries to take him to court, and loses, your brother will seek legal costs to be paid by her, IF SHE HAS NO REASONABLE CLAIM. From what you describe she is a complete idiot if she files a lawsuit. At the moment she is just trying to bully a settlement by scaring him with letters.

If I was in your brother's position I would send a brief, formal letter to her lawyer (the lawyer will then charge her for reading it.) It should state that as they were not married, she has no legal claim to any of his property. As she is and always has been employed and self-supporting, she has no claim for spousal support. As there is in no legal claim, he is not going to turn over any financial information of any kind.

If she goes ahead and files a lawsuit, she can get a court order to require your brother to turn over financial information, sure. But there is no penalty for your brother if he waits for this. In the case of child support, the child has a right to support even before the courts are involved, so a parent has an immediate obligation to provide financial information. But for a common-law separation, there is no entitlement unless she proves it, and he doesn't have to provide any financial information simply because she demands it.

Your brother should not just go by anything you read here, he should have this confirmed by a lawyer. There is a free service by the Law Society of Upper Canada that will provide him with a free half hour consultation by a specialist lawyer (specialist in what your issue is, in this case divorce). He can also go to most court houses in Ontario and ask for the Family Law Information Centre, and get a free half hour consultation there. He should get at least this much actual legal advice to put his mind at ease and to make sure he knows his rights and makes no stupid moves.

But in general he has nothing to worry about and she is just trying to bully money from him.

[brotherinneed]

She left the house may 24 wknd. it took her about 3 weeks to move everything out. she is living with family now, and we are sure that she has been coached, as she always claimed never to do what she is now doing. I'm thinking that the SS will not be granted,as she always paid for her own personal effects(smokes,gas,clothing) but I am unsure of the unjust enrichment she may be claiming as this is not stated in the lawyers letter, but am sure it will be brought up. My question is, how does flowers and consumable items enrich him? She didnt pay rent nor utilities,They were not married and no children of their own. She has had a cash job (NO T-4's) for the last yr or so. If she does have any T-4's it will be for a minamal amount. He has receipts of the reno's he has done, and of course his T-4's. I think he's screwed!

[Mess]

He is not "enriched" by things she did which would be considered temporary. Your brother needs to read and understand the distinction between capital costs and maintainence and decorations. Then he needs to write up his arguments accordingly.

She won't get a constructive trust unless she can show a reason. If there is a reason, your brother isn't "screwed", he would be paying money that he owes. If she can't show a reason, then she loses and pays costs.

As far as support goes, it comes down to their difference in income. Does he make more than double what she does? Then he should be concerned. If he does not, then she is just blowing smoke.

Finally, don't go on and on with your brother about he's getting screwed. He has enough stress already, and you are not a lawyer (and neither am I). He needs to get proper legal advice and work from that.

He should NOT just hand over his destiny to a lawyer, he should educate and inform himself, if he hires a lawyer he should pay close attention to what the lawyer is doing and not let endless useless letters go back and forth. He needs find out his rights, make a decision on what, if anything, he is offering, and then stand his ground and let her do the sweating.

[dadtotheend]

Originally Posted by brotherinneed

I'm thinking that the SS will not be granted,as she always paid for her own personal effects(smokes,gas,clothing)

You need to research the determinants of SS. What you're thinking is not what it is. It is not enough that she paid for own personal effects, SS is designed to equalize incomes that both contributed to a lifestyle.

If his income was much higher than hers, a quantum of SS could be ordered. There is also duration to consider. In a 7 year relationship, a few years of SS could, but not necessarily would, be ordered.

Do a LOT of reading about SS. When you're done read some more.

And don't worry so much. What Mess says is true. She is trying to intimidate him into agreeing to pay and won't get far at all in court before she soon realizes that it will cost her more to litigate the matter than she stands to get out of it.

From what little you describe, I would call her bluff and tell her to bring her f'n court application, and then I would turn and walk away, muttering "Silly wabbit, Trix are for kids" under my breath and laughing loudly.

And I would be happy a witch like that is gone from my home. Anyone who starts making noise about how it's always about the kid and never about me doesn't just drop down the integrity ladder. They were never on it to begin with.

[billiechic]

Originally Posted by dadtotheend

Anyone who starts making noise about how it's always about the kid and never about me doesn't just drop down the integrity ladder. They were never on it to begin with.

Good one!

[Max22258]

My case was similar and the home I kept, there was no constructive trust as I paid for everything. I have to pay support for 2 years, which is ok, but kept all vehicles as they were in my name. For the furnitutre that is a long story, it will cost me more to get them back. Ususally in court they ask for financial disclosure, he will have to do so evntually. I never did and only provided a letter from a company that I work for my yearly salary. He needs his notice of assesment and not the T4.