SS Again

[ONdad]

I had to break up my last post because it was too long.

In June 2002, while working for a company, I was contacted by a recruiter regarding a position at another company. in Raleigh, North Carolina. I was offered the position but was expected to move the family to Raleigh. During the summer of 2002, our entire family drove to Raleigh to check the area out and to get a feel of what life would be like there. At the time, STBX was VP Sales U.S. for an American company, which had the U.S. head office in Richmond, Virginia, approximately 1 hour away by car. After discussing the opportunity with Rosemary, we decided that I should take the position and work from home until we could all move down.

STBX would work from our home in Raleigh most days and commute to Richmond when needed for meetings. I started with the new company in January 2003, earning approximately $95,000 CAD per year. My offer also stated that my salary would increase to about $120,000 CAD once I moved to Raleigh. In August of 2003 STBX was let go from her job. We contacted a lawyer and started proceedings against the company. Rosemary was offered a position for $100,000/yr with a company in Mississauga in January 2004. As this was her only offer we decided that I would have to tell my company that I wouldn’t be able to move to Raleigh. Because of this, I was let go.

Later that year STBX received a settlement from her former company. We agreed that she would have them deposit approximately $40,000 into her RRSPs, so that she wouldn’t be taxed on the settlement.

From 1998 to 2004, all of my work experience was in the fields of electrical and mechanical engineering. During the 1990s, civil engineering positions were scarce, so much so that I was never able to get a co-op term position in the civil discipline, so I took jobs that were mechanical, electrical, and chemical in nature. Upon completing my degree in civil engineering, I had a very difficult time finding employment. I had spent my entire career in the electric vehicle controller and motor field, but I couldn’t find any positions in the industry to even apply for. I applied for civil, mechanical, and electrical engineering positions, including sales, but my lack of a degree in mechanical and electrical engineering was a barrier for me, as was my lack of experience in civil engineering.

As a result, I remained unemployed until 2005, when I joined a start-up company founded by a previous colleague. As a start-up, there wasn’t any money available for salary, but both STBX and I agreed that it was a good time to take a chance on a start-up. I wasn’t leaving a job to do it, she was making enough to support the family, and we felt that there was a good chance that the start up could do very well. I worked with them for two years, until we decided that we would be unable to continue in business. During this time, I continued to look for mainstream employment, but was never hired, though I had many interviews and was ranked as the second candidate many times. I took a part-time position with an environmental firm, for only $16/hr. The owner wanted to spin off a new company from and I was suggested as the person who could perform the lab work to make the new business viable, engineer the packaging and delivery system, and run that portion of the business. Unfortunately, the company experienced a down-turn in revenue, so I ended up performing odd jobs, soil remediation, and limited testing on the new venture. In August 2008 I was hired by my present employer for a contract position. In November 2009 I was hired for another contract, expiring December 2010.

From 2004 until 2008 when I was hired for the contract position, I continually looked for full-time work. I also tried to get part-time work, which I did with the start-up and the environmental company, but STBX’s erratic travel schedule, coupled with child care costs, made it very difficult to find a part-time position that only had hours between 9 am and 4 pm.

Throughout our marriage, I supported STBX in her career. I have been the primary caregiver for our daughter until last month when we agreed to a week on/week off parenting split. Without my support, STBX wouldn’t have been able to travel as frequently, as long, or on such short notice (sometimes only a few hours). RSTBX has told me and others that she wouldn’t be able to do what she does if she didn’t have me at home. I provided STBS with guidance and advice when dealing with her superiors at work, co-workers, clients, as well as help with sales, literature, and presentations. I have many emails from her asking for my help.

In summary, she makes $over 170k and I make about $67k. Am I likely to get SS?

[billiechic]

worth trying for!

[billm]

She supported you during marriage. seems like a fair trade for your help. I don't think she owes you for her career. *But if your career suffered as a result of your marriage (which it sounds like it did not), then you should be compensated.

Of course she pays you child support and you get half of everything.

Not what SSAG says, this is what I think is fair.

[LostFather]

Originally Posted by ONdad

I had to break up my last post because it was too long.

In June 2002, while working for a company, I was contacted by a recruiter regarding a position at another company. in Raleigh, North Carolina. I was offered the position but was expected to move the family to Raleigh. During the summer of 2002, our entire family drove to Raleigh to check the area out and to get a feel of what life would be like there. At the time, STBX was VP Sales U.S. for an American company, which had the U.S. head office in Richmond, Virginia, approximately 1 hour away by car. After discussing the opportunity with Rosemary, we decided that I should take the position and work from home until we could all move down.

STBX would work from our home in Raleigh most days and commute to Richmond when needed for meetings. I started with the new company in January 2003, earning approximately $95,000 CAD per year. My offer also stated that my salary would increase to about $120,000 CAD once I moved to Raleigh. In August of 2003 STBX was let go from her job. We contacted a lawyer and started proceedings against the company. Rosemary was offered a position for $100,000/yr with a company in Mississauga in January 2004. As this was her only offer we decided that I would have to tell my company that I wouldn’t be able to move to Raleigh. Because of this, I was let go.

Later that year STBX received a settlement from her former company. We agreed that she would have them deposit approximately $40,000 into her RRSPs, so that she wouldn’t be taxed on the settlement.

From 1998 to 2004, all of my work experience was in the fields of electrical and mechanical engineering. During the 1990s, civil engineering positions were scarce, so much so that I was never able to get a co-op term position in the civil discipline, so I took jobs that were mechanical, electrical, and chemical in nature. Upon completing my degree in civil engineering, I had a very difficult time finding employment. I had spent my entire career in the electric vehicle controller and motor field, but I couldn’t find any positions in the industry to even apply for. I applied for civil, mechanical, and electrical engineering positions, including sales, but my lack of a degree in mechanical and electrical engineering was a barrier for me, as was my lack of experience in civil engineering.

As a result, I remained unemployed until 2005, when I joined a start-up company founded by a previous colleague. As a start-up, there wasn’t any money available for salary, but both STBX and I agreed that it was a good time to take a chance on a start-up. I wasn’t leaving a job to do it, she was making enough to support the family, and we felt that there was a good chance that the start up could do very well. I worked with them for two years, until we decided that we would be unable to continue in business. During this time, I continued to look for mainstream employment, but was never hired, though I had many interviews and was ranked as the second candidate many times. I took a part-time position with an environmental firm, for only $16/hr. The owner wanted to spin off a new company from and I was suggested as the person who could perform the lab work to make the new business viable, engineer the packaging and delivery system, and run that portion of the business. Unfortunately, the company experienced a down-turn in revenue, so I ended up performing odd jobs, soil remediation, and limited testing on the new venture. In August 2008 I was hired by my present employer for a contract position. In November 2009 I was hired for another contract, expiring December 2010.

From 2004 until 2008 when I was hired for the contract position, I continually looked for full-time work. I also tried to get part-time work, which I did with the start-up and the environmental company, but STBX’s erratic travel schedule, coupled with child care costs, made it very difficult to find a part-time position that only had hours between 9 am and 4 pm.

Throughout our marriage, I supported STBX in her career. I have been the primary caregiver for our daughter until last month when we agreed to a week on/week off parenting split. Without my support, STBX wouldn’t have been able to travel as frequently, as long, or on such short notice (sometimes only a few hours). RSTBX has told me and others that she wouldn’t be able to do what she does if she didn’t have me at home. I provided STBS with guidance and advice when dealing with her superiors at work, co-workers, clients, as well as help with sales, literature, and presentations. I have many emails from her asking for my help.

In summary, she makes $over 170k and I make about $67k. Am I likely to get SS?

Your're the stay at home dad so to speak, or were at one point, you seem to be the primary care giver. There is a huge difference in incomes. I do not see why not. Women get it all the time, just because you're a man doesn't mean or should not mean that you're not entitled, but we all know in here what the courts are like. Having said that I am not sure what would prevent a judge from ordering SS!?

[ONdad]

Originally Posted by billm

She supported you during marriage. seems like a fair trade for your help. I don't think she owes you for her career. *But if your career suffered as a result of your marriage (which it sounds like it did not), then you should be compensated.

Of course she pays you child support and you get half of everything.

Not what SSAG says, this is what I think is fair.

Well, I did end up losing my job that would be paying me more than double what I'm making now, not counting commissions, and I've had to take a major step back in order to get the position I've now got so that I can get experience. There are fairly new grads making what I make or more.

I also cashed out all of the RRSPs that I did have and did all the house renovations myself, on top of working when I could, so I don't think that she really supported me, I just wasn't making what I had made before.

I would be fine with half of the assets, but I don't think that they'll come easily, so I'm stuck with looking at SS.

[blinkandimgone]

Sounds like a good case for spousal support to me. May as well try, the worst they can do is say no and you can't lose what you don't already have, right?

[asnf]

"In summary, she makes $over 170k and I make about $67k. Am I likely to get SS?"

I think the basis for spousal support is the "need" in the part of the recepient and "means" on the part of the payor. Although, she is making a lot more that you which places her as the potential payor - in my opionion I think spousal support may not be awarded unless of course you can convince the other party that there is still a need for you to get supported - e.g. paying debts, etc.

[LostFather]

Originally Posted by asnf

"In summary, she makes $over 170k and I make about $67k. Am I likely to get SS?"

I think the basis for spousal support is the "need" in the part of the recepient and "means" on the part of the payor. Although, she is making a lot more that you which places her as the potential payor - in my opionion I think spousal support may not be awarded unless of course you can convince the other party that there is still a need for you to get supported - e.g. paying debts, etc.

Since when does need every come into it I mean there are lots of examples when the table is turned, and there is clearly no need for SS or any types of support, but there seems to be some sort of entitlement over the past few decades or more, and now when men seem to be on the recieving end, now comes the 'need' card

Though I do that there should be some sort of 'need' assessment for not only SS , I also believe for CS too. The idea that all CS is going to the children is in my opinion something that doesn't always happen, and really how much can children really "need',

I've raised and supported children, and I can tell you that when it gets up there in the $1000,00 month range, for 2 kids the 'need' is more for the receiving parent than the child. Just my 2 cents.

I think it unfairly puts one parent at a financial disadvantage over the other. Children at one house have all the toys from Toys R Us, goes to Canada's Wonderland, Disney and so on, then at the payor, they're lucky to go to Dairy Queen. and have to go to the Dollar store for toys. Kids will be kids, how long before the payor parents doesn't look so good place to go.

I know, the children will grow up and realize it later in life, but that's just it, it's later in life, and you've missed their best years, ones you'll never get back.

Big can of worms

[asnf]

I was directly answering specific to the SS question. The justice dept website indicated that "the law says that judges must consider a number of factors, including how much the person asking for support needs to meet his or her needs, and how much the other person can afford to pay. A person may claim support to help him or her become financially self-sufficient or to keep from ending up in serious financial difficulty."

I understand your situation, I am here at this website as I am navigating through a difficult family case situation is well.

As for CS, yes she has to pay you CS but for SS I still think the same.

[Mess]

Need is one of many factors and it alone doesn't decide if SS is paid, what it does is possibly factor SS up or down somewhat.

Entitlement is not a dirty word. You live a society, you and the people around you have various entitlements, if you don't like that then go live on a deserted island somewhere.

Legislation and court decisions recognise that the longer a relationship lasts, the greater the couple's finances and careers become mingled. Decisions made are family decisions, each partner does not completely ignore the other and decide what to do selfishly (or at least that is what is supposed to happen within the definition of marriage). Should I change jobs? Should I take an hour off in the afternoon to pick up the kids? Should I invest an extra thousand in RRSP or rely on my spouse's pension plan? We choose our priorities as members of a family, not as individuals.

No two situations are entirely alike, and the law cannot be made as "one size fits all" and still be functional. And yet the law must apply equally to everyone. So what we have is a system where the law applies equally and the courts have some flexibility. Out of that some people feel they got hosed because they have to share their income for a few years.

If you don't want to share your finances, don't get married or have kids. If you choose to do so, then grow up and accept that there are consequences to the choices you made.