Question for Logical Velocity?

[hurt1]

Me again!

OK, I cashed in my RRSP's to hire a lawyer. I am just over the threshold amount for Legal Aid, which I figured would happen. Basically they said unless I am living on social assistance of some kind it's very difficult to be accepted.

So, I contacted a lawyer recommended to me by my MVA lawyer. He wants $2500 retainer (which I now have) as well as $375/hour. OUCH! He gave me the name of another lawyer as well who charges less than he does for an hourly rate.

What should I expext, hourwise, for my case? And does the hourly rate start getting taken out of my retainer first, or do I have to start paying that on TOP of the retainer I have already given?

Can we ask for my legal fees to be reimbursed should this go to court?

I would "like", ideally, for my lawyer (whichever one I choose) to point out to the other side that if it does go to court, he could be forced to pay XXX amount of dollars per month until she is 18 or done school. I am wanting to settle for a lump sum amount instead. If he agrees to the lump sum amount then I won't ask for costs, I'll just take them out of my settlement. If it DOES go to court can I ask for costs, especially since that I offered to settle this issue outside of court several times and was refused?

I'm having a hard time deciding what to do here. I also don't know if I should contact this other lawyer with the cheaper/hourly rates.

Any input you can provide would be fantastic. I have had no contact with the ex since I moved out. My daughter has been really quiet since we moved and I can't get her to talk about her feelings which is really distressing to me - this is such a happy go lucky kid most of the time.

[logicalvelocity]

hurt1,

as you mentioned,

OK, I cashed in my RRSP's to hire a lawyer. I am just over the threshold amount for Legal Aid, which I figured would happen. Basically they said unless I am living on social assistance of some kind it's very difficult to be accepted.

Legal aid acceptance is automatically for social assistance recipients. Legal aid would basically expect you to do what you have now done before they would take on your case.

So, I contacted a lawyer recommended to me by my MVA lawyer. He wants $2500 retainer (which I now have) as well as $375/hour. OUCH! He gave me the name of another lawyer as well who charges less than he does for an hourly rate.

Most lawyers require a retainer. The 375/hr seems a little steep. Are they a QC? If you in the Ottawa area, I highly recommend Jeff who is the host of this forum. His list of fees can be found here http://www.ottawadivorce.com/legalfees.htm

If your not in the Ottawa area, you may want to get yourself a family law specialist which can be found at the law society. http://www1.lsuc.on.ca/specialist/js...de=FAM&region=

There are many good lawyers available. Here is the law society directory

http://www1.lsuc.on.ca/MemberDirecto...dSearchPage.do

Before you retain a lawyer, search canlaw to see if they have any reported cases. This may give you an idea as well.

http://www.canlii.org/on/index_en.html

What should I expext, hourwise, for my case? And does the hourly rate start getting taken out of my retainer first, or do I have to start paying that on TOP of the retainer I have already given?

See Jeff's explanation above of how the retainer is spent.

Can we ask for my legal fees to be reimbursed should this go to court?

Yes of course. You would claim costs on a full solicitor client indemnify basis.
along with any other claim the honorable thinks is right and just. ( this keeps the door open for other issues.)

I'm having a hard time deciding what to do here. I also don't know if I should contact this other lawyer with the cheaper/hourly rates.

Yes I agree it is a difficult decision to make. If it was myself I would research whom I selected before paying the retainer. As I mentioned if your in Ottawa, I recommend Jeff. He is a straight shooter and tells it like it is. Take a look at his website. Perhaps he may have a name of a good lawyer in the area that you reside in. It costs nothing to call him http://www.ottawadivorce.com/testimonials.htm

Behrendt Law Chambers
180 Metcalfe Street, Suite 100
Ottawa, Ontario K2P 1P5
Telephone: 613-598-0020
Facsimile: 613-598-0040

E-mail: Behrendt@OttawaDivorce.com

Any input you can provide would be fantastic. I have had no contact with the ex since I moved out. My daughter has been really quiet since we moved and I can't get her to talk about her feelings which is really distressing to me - this is such a happy go lucky kid most of the time.

No doubt that the recent circumstances is going to have an effect on yourself along with your child. Your daughter is most likely wondering why this has occurred and may even be blaming themselves for same. Watch out for this and emphasize to your child that they are not at fault and this happens between adults.

lv

[hurt1]

HI LV!
The lawyer in question is indeed a certified specialist. The person HE referred me to is, of course, his associate. I had a brief phone conversation with her this afternoon and did not care for her. She was rather brusque about the whole thing and I got the feeling she felt I was a gold-digging you know what. I am supposed to have an appointment with her next week but I am not sure if I will keep it.

If I was in Ottawa I would hire Jeff in a heartbeat! It's not even the issue of money or what it's going to cost me (although that is a consideration) but I just want to find a lawyer who believes in me, and what I am seeking to acheive. She told me she didn't feel I had a valid case but booked an appointment anyway (and NOT a free consult - $220/hr) I did speak briefly with one law office a few weeks ago, shortly BEFORE he got a lawyer and was going to meet with her but then cancelled because I felt things were going to settle amicably. I may call her office again tomorrow - I got a really nice impression of the lawyer and what she does from the receptionist and didn't feel at all like I was some welfare mother looking to get as much $$ as she can by anyone she can. I work two part-time jobs, am taking a part-time course, look after a 6 year old and help care for my dying mother. I am just really starting to resent what some of these lawyers seem to be implying when I speak to them about the case.

Worst comes to worst I may just do the damn thing on my own. When the judge asks me why I am representing myself I'll tell him I couldn't afford a good lawyer but was still "too rich" for legal aid...LOL.

I am a bit discouraged but not about to give up. I have been bookmarking all relevant articles and cases at Canlaw (some VERY interesting cases there, BTW!!) I do want to thank you for all your help and support (AGAIN!) because honestly, you have really encouraged me that this can be done (and if karma wills, be succesfull at it).

I am going to start putting together "evidence" as it were of his relationship with my daughter. Emails, birthday/Christmas cards and gifts from HIS family to her, photos, videos. Copies of school records and school programs which had him listed as her step-parent. Part of me is thinking to quit while I am ahead but damn, he ruined my daughter and I emotionally once. Now this time he's added financially to the mix, as well.

At any rate I am babbling here. I was going to pm or email this message to you but I don't think you accept them through here? So here is my accolade to you in all it's glory!! I've read a lot of threads on here and you are always the voice of reason (and quite often, hope) to a lot of people who I don't think would have much of either, otherwise.

[hurt1]

OOPS!

I almost forgot - I am going to email Jeff and ask him if he can refer me to a lawyer here (London, Ontario) who would be fair and at least see me before determining that I am a gold-digging *****. Someone who accepts Legal Aid would be a bonus just in case I end up being able to qualify once I've used up what little resources I have at this time.

[logicalvelocity]

hurt1,

Avoid the lawyers that you receive a bad vibe. Trust your instinct on this.
Jeff may know someone in your area. I believe you have a significant merit to your case and everything is going to hinge on proving that he acted as a parent to your child. Gather your evidence, cards, biurthdays, anything he signed, child care, transportation, sporting events, parent teacher meetings, medical appointments, allowances and anything else a parent does with a child.

I'm not sure why the forum email doesn't work but you can always reach me here at
logicalvelocity@yahoo.ca

lv

[today]

A little off topic perhaps, but what does the initials QC stand for and what does imply for the the lawyer you hire , mine did have this designation but never knew what it meant, I always had the impression it meant the lawyer had accomplished something but never sure what it really meant.

[logicalvelocity]

today,

QC is Queens Counsel

Lawyers are appointed for the honorary title by the Lieutenant Governor and have a level of precedence.

see the relevent statute

Barristers Act

R.S.O. 1990, Chapter B.3

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/S...sh/90b03_e.htm


Queen's Counsel

2.-(1) The Lieutenant Governor, by letters patent under the Great Seal, may appoint from the members of the bar of Ontario such persons as he or she considers proper to be, during pleasure, provincial officers under the name of "Her Majesty's counsel learned in the law" for Ontario. R.S.O. 1990, c. B.3, s. 2 (1).

-and this is interesting-

Order of precedence at the bar

3.-(1) The following members of the bar of Ontario have precedence in the courts of Ontario in the following order:

1. The Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada.

2. The Attorney General for Ontario.

3. The members of the bar who have held the office of Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada or Attorney General for Ontario or Minister of Justice and Attorney General for Ontario, according to seniority of appointment. R.S.O. 1990, c. B.3, s. 3 (1).

Patents of precedence

(2) The Lieutenant Governor, by letters patent under the Great Seal, may grant to any member of the bar a patent of precedence in the courts of Ontario. R.S.O. 1990, c. B.3, s. 3 (2).

Precedence of Queen's Counsel

(3) Queen's counsel for Ontario have precedence in the courts according to seniority of appointment unless otherwise provided in the letters patent. R.S.O. 1990, c. B.3, s. 3 (3).

Precedence of other members of the bar

(4) The remaining members of the bar, as among themselves, have precedence in the courts in the order of their call to the bar. R.S.O. 1990, c. B.3, s. 3 (4).

Crown Counsel

(5) Nothing in this Act affects or alters any rights of precedence that appertain to any member of the bar when acting as counsel for Her Majesty, or for any attorney general of Her Majesty, in any matter depending in the name of Her Majesty or of the attorney general before the courts, but such right and precedence remain as if this Act had not been passed. R.S.O. 1990, c. B.3, s. 3 (5).

lv

[hurt1]

Hi LV!

Well I followed my instincts. I got in touch with a lawyer I had spoken to right at the beginning of this (I had an appt with her but cancelled it when it looked like the ex was going to play fair). I have an appointment on Tuesday afternoon. I haven't spoken to HER directly but I did spend about 20 minutes on the phone with her assistant the first time and then another 15 minutes today. She was a real sweetheart, and didn't patronize me or give me attitude. She seemed genuinely interested in what I had to say.

My first appointment is a 1/2 hour consult. Do you think it would be inappropriate at that time to bring in my homework? ie. case #'s that are similar to mine, etc. I want her to know that I believe in teamwork on these things and am ready to do anything I can to make her work easier (sounds silly, but I believe in give and take in these things). I really wish I had stuck with my guy instinct the first time I called her office. Her rates are very reasonable ($200 - $250/hr depending on what we are looking at acheiving). She is also a "collaborative family lawyer" (not sure what that means though)

She doesn't accept legal aid but her assistant said not to worry. The retainer fee was also reasonable and she said anything over that they will work out payment schedules, plus they will be asking for those costs in court anyway if it goes that far. I think a nice assistant can make or break a lawyer. Hopefully the lawyer, when I meet her, is just as easy to talk to!

[logicalvelocity]

hurt1,

Do you think it would be inappropriate at that time to bring in my homework? ie. case #'s that are similar to mine, etc. I want her to know that I believe in teamwork on these things and am ready to do anything I can to make her work easier (sounds silly, but I believe in give and take in these things).

When you go to the lawyer, have the background of the relationship summarized including how you gave up your home, reorganized your life, gave up possessions etc on a promise or notion of marriage not once but twice.

Your key to winning this is to prove the other party acted as a parent to your child; Have everything available ie: give the lawyer copies letters, cards. You may want to write a list of questions also to ask the lawyer to save time. It is a great idea to present case law to the lawyer on the subject.

lv

[hurt1]

Thanks! I am writing a brief (well, for me, brief ) summary/timeframe. I am also going through photos and videos, etc. I have emails and cards from his parents and brother/SIL. The photos themselves are in the hundreds, literally. Photos of them maknig breakfast together, making muffins, him teaching her to swim, planting the little vegetable garden he made for her last year. 4 of her last 6 bdays were spent at his house, as well as Christmas and THanksgiving and Easter. I have photos of her snuggled up on the couch with him, some of her with his Mom and step-Dad. There's a particularly sweet one of his brother carrying her (while she was asleep) on our way back to the hotel when we went to Chicago last summer.

The assistant I spoke to also told me to bring my copy of the seperation agreement he tried to get me to sign (where I am supposed to agree that he did NOT act as a parent towards her). She feels this will be particularly crucial to the case since it indicates that both he and his lawyer felt that there was a likelihood that I would have grounds to base a child support claim on.

I am also making a list of the case numbers for those I found on CanLaw that are similar in nature to my own.

I am going to have the lawyer and I come up with a reasonable, lump sum amount and have his lawyer present it to him. If he refuses then it will go to court.

LV, are you a lawyer? I am guessing you are, but if you are not, then you should be. If you were closer to me I would hire you (or Jeff) in a heartbeat. You have given me hope and support that what I am seeking is not unreasonable. My ex and I have a lot of mutual friends (well, truthfully, they were HIS friends but became my friends once we were together). I am sure my name will be mud with them once this process begins. Speaking of which, I am still friends with our next door neighbour. They are really upset about this (they were the first time this happened too). They have two kids and their little boy used to play with my daughter. Is it possible to get a sworn affidavit from them as to what their view was of the relationship between him and my daughter? Would that be admissable in court or would they have to be subpenaed to appear in person should it go that far?